Even the French admit that security is improving in Iraq

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Thread title says it all.

The French Foreign Minister takes a trip to Iraq and admits that security in Iraq is improving. AND he says that the Iraqis are making 'progress' at taking charge of their country.

Why can't the Democrats do the same?
link
BAGHDAD (AFP) ? French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said on Sunday that the security situation in Iraq was improving and reaffirmed France's willingness to help rebuild the war-ravaged country.
"I have the feeling that things are better. Statistics show a drop in security incidents," Kouchner told AFP after a working lunch with his Iraqi counterpart Hoshyar Zebari on the last day of his two-day visit to Iraq.
There is "an improvement in the situation in Iraq," he said.
Kouchner also voiced satisfaction at efforts by the Iraqis to take charge of their own country, saying they were making "progress."
"The Iraqis themselves, with their army, their administration, are taking charge of their own problems," Kouchner said.
He then went to Arbil, capital of the autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq, to open a French representative office before wrapping up his visit.
Kouchner arrived from neighbouring Jordan on Saturday on an unannounced trip which he said was aimed at underlining Paris's "renewed political commitment" to Iraq.
He had separate meetings with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki and also met the top US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, and leading Christian cleric Cardinal Emmanuel III Delly.
Kouchner told a news conference his meeting with Maliki "went well" and that "some (development) projects have been proposed to France.
"We will see if our industrialists can bring answers," Kouchner said.
Zebari insisted that "it is urgent that France takes part in the reconstruction of Iraq."
Kouchner, on his second visit to Iraq since August, said that France wants "to take part in the reconstruction of the country."
He also confirmed that France, which under former president Jacques Chirac strongly opposed the US-led invasion of Iraq, was examining the cases of 500 Iraqis, including Christians, who wish to move to France.
Earlier on Sunday, two people were killed and five were wounded in a car bombing in Baghdad just outside the Green Zone which houses the Iraqi government and the US embassy, as Kouchner was visiting the capital.
But even as the attack occurred the US military and the Iraqi government reported a major drop in the number of deaths for the month of May.
Nineteen US soldiers were killed in Iraq in May, the lowest monthly death toll since the invasion of 2003, the military said. The previous low was in February 2004 when 20 soldiers were killed.
The number of Iraqi civilians and security personnel killed in May also dropped dramatically to 563 compared with at least 1,073 dead in April and 1,082 in March, the Iraqi defence, interior and health ministries reported.
BTW Has Obama made any recent statements about Iraq or the surge? Would be interesting to see what he has to say.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Great, sounds like Iraq is under control. Time to pull out.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
This has been in this position what 1 year? He needed a trip to Iraq to make that statement?

Nice..
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Everyone agrees the security situation in Iraq has improved.

but what does that really mean?

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Here's a better question:

When will Republicans agree it has improved enough to STOP spending $150 billion a year in Iraq?

2108?
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Of course security will improve when you've killed just about everyone! :p
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
European politicians like to say that about any country so that they can illegally deport refugees to those countries. France has actually set a quota to fill.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
"Even the French"? You mean the Sarkozy govt, who've been sucking up to their fellow "conservatives" in the Bush admin most satisfactorily?

So, uhh, how does the "security situation" compare to what it was for the average Iraqi prior to the Invasion? Or is that a metric nobody wants to reference? Yeh, sure, Iraq was a dictatorship, a totalitarian state, but there were rules, and order. People could go to work, or the mosque, or wherever w/o fear of being killed by some random militia whackjobs, didn't live in fear of their children being kidnapped and held for ransom by thugs and bandits... didn't have to fear being blown to bits in the market by suicide bombers drawn into the country by the presence of the great Satan's troops...

First, destroy the govt, hand out small arms and ammo like candy on Halloween, throw open the borders, encourage and create bloody chaos. next, claim progress when the murdering abates somewhat...

Can we leave yet, or will there ever be enough "progress" to justify that? probably not...
 

Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Even the French"? You mean the Sarkozy govt, who've been sucking up to their fellow "conservatives" in the Bush admin most satisfactorily?

So, uhh, how does the "security situation" compare to what it was for the average Iraqi prior to the Invasion? Or is that a metric nobody wants to reference? Yeh, sure, Iraq was a dictatorship, a totalitarian state, but there were rules, and order. People could go to work, or the mosque, or wherever w/o fear of being killed by some random militia whackjobs, didn't live in fear of their children being kidnapped and held for ransom by thugs and bandits... didn't have to fear being blown to bits in the market by suicide bombers drawn into the country by the presence of the great Satan's troops...

First, destroy the govt, hand out small arms and ammo like candy on Halloween, throw open the borders, encourage and create bloody chaos. next, claim progress when the murdering abates somewhat...

Can we leave yet, or will there ever be enough "progress" to justify that? probably not...

This is what's so mindfuckingly bizarre about the ProfJohn type neocon assholes. THey think 4000 american soldiers plus a trillion dollars is a worthwhile price to pay to get Iraq to roughly the same position it was in before the invasion.

Really?
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Even the French"? You mean the Sarkozy govt, who've been sucking up to their fellow "conservatives" in the Bush admin most satisfactorily?

So, uhh, how does the "security situation" compare to what it was for the average Iraqi prior to the Invasion? Or is that a metric nobody wants to reference? Yeh, sure, Iraq was a dictatorship, a totalitarian state, but there were rules, and order. People could go to work, or the mosque, or wherever w/o fear of being killed by some random militia whackjobs, didn't live in fear of their children being kidnapped and held for ransom by thugs and bandits... didn't have to fear being blown to bits in the market by suicide bombers drawn into the country by the presence of the great Satan's troops...

First, destroy the govt, hand out small arms and ammo like candy on Halloween, throw open the borders, encourage and create bloody chaos. next, claim progress when the murdering abates somewhat...

Can we leave yet, or will there ever be enough "progress" to justify that? probably not...

This is what's so mindfuckingly bizarre about the ProfJohn type neocon assholes. THey think 4000 american soldiers plus a trillion dollars is a worthwhile price to pay to get Iraq to roughly the same position it was in before the invasion.

Really?

He has to say it over and over again - to let the propaganda sink in....
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Time to get another NUMBER TWO AL-QAEDA guy

How many years has this embarrassment gone on?
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
1
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Time to get another NUMBER TWO AL-QAEDA guy

How many years has this embarrassment gone on?

The Al-Qaeda sophisticated computer-generated bunkers are deep, and our drills are only so big. It may take a hundred years of fuscia alerts before we can shop till we drop with the peace of mind the Founders had intended.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
0
0
A man starts beating his wife cause he doesn't like her cooking.
Neighbors start complaining.
Man beats wife some more.
Neighbors go to police.
Wife starts cooking better.
Man looks incredulous when police show up.
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Even the French"? You mean the Sarkozy govt, who've been sucking up to their fellow "conservatives" in the Bush admin most satisfactorily?

So, uhh, how does the "security situation" compare to what it was for the average Iraqi prior to the Invasion? Or is that a metric nobody wants to reference? Yeh, sure, Iraq was a dictatorship, a totalitarian state, but there were rules, and order. People could go to work, or the mosque, or wherever w/o fear of being killed by some random militia whackjobs, didn't live in fear of their children being kidnapped and held for ransom by thugs and bandits... didn't have to fear being blown to bits in the market by suicide bombers drawn into the country by the presence of the great Satan's troops...

First, destroy the govt, hand out small arms and ammo like candy on Halloween, throw open the borders, encourage and create bloody chaos. next, claim progress when the murdering abates somewhat...

Can we leave yet, or will there ever be enough "progress" to justify that? probably not...

This is what's so mindfuckingly bizarre about the ProfJohn type neocon assholes. THey think 4000 american soldiers plus a trillion dollars is a worthwhile price to pay to get Iraq to roughly the same position it was in before the invasion.

Really?

:thumbsup:
 

punchkin

Banned
Dec 13, 2007
852
0
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Here's a better question:

When will Republicans agree it has improved enough to STOP spending $150 billion a year in Iraq?

2108?

According to a report on TV, that is a lowball figure. They claimed over $50B per month.
 

punchkin

Banned
Dec 13, 2007
852
0
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Even the French"? You mean the Sarkozy govt, who've been sucking up to their fellow "conservatives" in the Bush admin most satisfactorily?

So, uhh, how does the "security situation" compare to what it was for the average Iraqi prior to the Invasion? Or is that a metric nobody wants to reference? Yeh, sure, Iraq was a dictatorship, a totalitarian state, but there were rules, and order. People could go to work, or the mosque, or wherever w/o fear of being killed by some random militia whackjobs, didn't live in fear of their children being kidnapped and held for ransom by thugs and bandits... didn't have to fear being blown to bits in the market by suicide bombers drawn into the country by the presence of the great Satan's troops...

First, destroy the govt, hand out small arms and ammo like candy on Halloween, throw open the borders, encourage and create bloody chaos. next, claim progress when the murdering abates somewhat...

Can we leave yet, or will there ever be enough "progress" to justify that? probably not...

This is what's so mindfuckingly bizarre about the ProfJohn type neocon assholes. THey think 4000 american soldiers plus a trillion dollars is a worthwhile price to pay to get Iraq to roughly the same position it was in before the invasion.

Really?

We spent thousands of soldiers' lives and averted the deaths of hundreds of thousands. We ousted a brutal dictator from power. On the money, you might have a point... as you might with the reasons given at the time for the invasion.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Even the French"? You mean the Sarkozy govt, who've been sucking up to their fellow "conservatives" in the Bush admin most satisfactorily?

So, uhh, how does the "security situation" compare to what it was for the average Iraqi prior to the Invasion? Or is that a metric nobody wants to reference? Yeh, sure, Iraq was a dictatorship, a totalitarian state, but there were rules, and order. People could go to work, or the mosque, or wherever w/o fear of being killed by some random militia whackjobs, didn't live in fear of their children being kidnapped and held for ransom by thugs and bandits... didn't have to fear being blown to bits in the market by suicide bombers drawn into the country by the presence of the great Satan's troops...

First, destroy the govt, hand out small arms and ammo like candy on Halloween, throw open the borders, encourage and create bloody chaos. next, claim progress when the murdering abates somewhat...

Can we leave yet, or will there ever be enough "progress" to justify that? probably not...

This is what's so mindfuckingly bizarre about the ProfJohn type neocon assholes. THey think 4000 american soldiers plus a trillion dollars is a worthwhile price to pay to get Iraq to roughly the same position it was in before the invasion.

Really?

 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: punchkin
We spent thousands of soldiers' lives and averted the deaths of hundreds of thousands. We ousted a brutal dictator from power. On the money, you might have a point... as you might with the reasons given at the time for the invasion.

Huh? How can you say hundreds of thousands of deaths were averted? :confused:

 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This is what's so mindfuckingly bizarre about the ProfJohn type neocon assholes. THey think 4000 american soldiers plus a trillion dollars is a worthwhile price to pay to get Iraq to roughly the same position it was in before the invasion.

Really?

Now they don't have that pesky little murderous dictator at the helm, the new Iraqi Administration is friendly to the U.S., they hold regular elections, and we're entrenched enough to prevent any further WMD development or the export of terrorism...

Even though I too believe that we should never have gone into Iraq to begin with, those successes are still something to be very proud of, and they're still worthy of the sacrifices we've made -- some of us more than others -- even if folks like you think all of our soldiers are criminals who "die for nothing."

Every time YOU open your mouth, YOU are shitting on the sacrifice of all of MY brothers and sisters who have died.

Know that.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Why can't the Democrats do the same?

Because it is their boogeyman to toss around and get people to vote their way. Expect the rhetoric from the dems and the media to fire up about late August and go through the election cycle.

Then I'd expect depending on who gets elected a series of stories on either how good or bad it is.

The same patterns happen over and over. Pretty sad we as a people buy into it.
 

punchkin

Banned
Dec 13, 2007
852
0
0
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: punchkin
We spent thousands of soldiers' lives and averted the deaths of hundreds of thousands. We ousted a brutal dictator from power. On the money, you might have a point... as you might with the reasons given at the time for the invasion.

Huh? How can you say hundreds of thousands of deaths were averted? :confused:

Because we ousted Saddam Hussein, who had already killed hundreds of thousands.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: palehorse
Now they don't have that pesky little murderous dictator at the helm
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, try again.

they hold regular elections
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, try again.

we're entrenched enough to prevent any further WMD development
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, try again.

or the export of terrorism
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, try again.

the new Iraqi Administration is friendly to the U.S.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

they're still worthy of the sacrifices we've made
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, try again.

Every time YOU open your mouth, YOU are shitting on the sacrifice of all of MY brothers and sisters who have died.
Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong, try again.

1 for 7, you're improving.