Evangelicals find religion . . . move away from GOP platitudes

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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CNN

This whole debate reminds of what David Kuo said about the Bush junta and the elite of the Christian Right. They are drunk with power but teetotalers when it comes to spirituality.

MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota (CNN) -- A sharp difference of opinion over which issues ought to top the political agenda of Christian conservatives spilled out into the open at this week's meeting of the National Association of Evangelicals.
Potentially good news for Obama. I believe Huckabee also has a decent position on being a good steward of the planet and basic human rights.

The group rebuffed complaints from some of the religious right's leading lights about the organization's newfound focus on global warming.
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But Dobson and the other signatories of the letter to the National Association of Evangelicals board said evidence supporting global warming was not conclusive and that the organization "lacks the expertise to settle the controversy."
Hmm, seems its a moral issue if you frame it as a responsibility to use as little of the Earth's resources as necessary and avoid despoiling that which God created.

One of the men who signed the letter, Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council, said global warming was part of a leftist agenda that threatened evangelical unity.

"We're not going to allow third parties to divide evangelicals, and I think that is what is happening in part with the global warming issue," Perkins said.
My precious . . . my precious . . . it is MINE . . . the power is MINE!

But one of the board members, the Rev. Paul de Vries, said, "It ought to be God's agenda, not the Republican Party's agenda, that drives us.

"We're actually tired of being represented by people with a very narrow focus," he said. "We want to have a focus as big as God's focus."
I still remember the exit polling in 2004 when a lot of people said 'moral values/issues' were very important in how they voted. Looks like it will be harder for the GOP to pull that scam again.

Christian evangelicals with a statement condemning torture? Good news for America . . . the shroud has lifted.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Christian evangelicals with a statement condemning torture? Good news for America . . . the shroud has lifted.

I cannot recall any Christian religion endorsing it? I guess they don't condemn it unless they write a letter? Different rules for different people.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
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Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Christian evangelicals with a statement condemning torture? Good news for America . . . the shroud has lifted.

I cannot recall any Christian religion endorsing it? I guess they don't condemn it unless they write a letter? Different rules for different people.

you will have to forgive BaliBabyDoc thats just his way of over sensationa;ozing things!
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Sometimes . . . I'm curious about just how ill-informed and uninformed defenders of the status quo can be. Then I recall that many normal looking people are quite ignorant and/or delusional but the areas of the brain responsible for expressive communication continue to work well.

google is your friend
I was interested to find that the Rev. Louis Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition is so in favor of torture he told McCain that the senator either supports the torture bill or he can forget about the evangelical Christian vote. I'd like to see an evangelical vote on that one.

the evangelical outpost
The ?truth? about torture is an issue being widely addressed throughout the country, yet the Christian intellectual community has been relatively silent on this important issue.
There's nothing in the OP suggesting evangelical Christians ENDORSED torture. Granted, the link above clearly indicates that some at the very least don't want the practice to be explicitly prohibited. It's quite clear in the OP that it is the 'finding of a voice' that I'm highlighting. Christian evangelicals shouting from on high about current situations in our country and world that demand attention and action . . . aside from things that don't really matter (sexual preferences, matrimony).

WOW!
As an evangelical Christian, as someone who numbers himself among the followers of Jesus, my politics point toward the left, a posture that places me squarely at odds with evangelicals aligned with the religious right. I find their unflinching allegiance to the Bush administration and its position on a range of issues -- from the environment to the prosecution of the war in Iraq -- inimical to the Scriptures that we evangelicals claim as our guide.

The Bible contains something like 2,000 references to the poor, and Jesus spoke repeatedly about a believer's responsibility to those he called "the least of these." I've yet to understand how those teachings square with tax cuts for the affluent or the persistent refusal to raise the minimum wage. Jesus made it a habit to hang around with the cultural outcasts of his day, and the apostle Paul insisted in Christ there is no preference among nationalities and no distinction between the sexes. How are the teachings of the New Testament consistent with those who would deny rights to anyone -- or immigrants or Muslims or women or gays?

Jesus, to take another example, expressed concern for the tiniest sparrow, yet the religious right, as evidenced by a 1999 document called the Cornwall Declaration and by their silence on global warming, prefers to sacrifice the natural world on the altar of free enterprise. Wouldn't it be logical to assume that those who claim to believe in intelligent design would seek to protect the intelligent designer's handiwork? I am not among that minority of Christians who believe that the use of military force is never justified. The Allied resistance to Adolph Hitler in World War II, for instance, provides an example of a just war. But is the war in Iraq morally justifiable?

For centuries, Christians have asked certain questions to determine whether or not armed conflict is justified: Is it a defensive war? Is military action undertaken as a last resort, after all other options have been exhausted? Is the armed response proportional to the provocation? Have measures been taken to protect civilians, now perishing at a rate of more than 100 a day?

I've yet to be persuaded that the war in Iraq meets any of these criteria.

I suspect that when Jesus asked us to love our enemies, he probably didn't mean that we should torture or kill them. In the course of writing "Thy Kingdom Come," I contacted eight religious right groups with a straightforward query. Please send me, I asked, a copy of your organization's position on the use of torture. Now, remember that these are groups with detailed position papers on everything from stem-cell research to same-sex marriage (both of which they oppose).

Only two organizations -- the Family Research Council and Institute of Religion and Democracy -- responded to my inquiry. Both of them supported the Bush administration's policies on torture against those it has designated "enemy combatants." These are people who profess to be pro-life, who claim to be able to hear a "fetal scream." Yet they have turned a deaf ear to the cries of those who are being tortured in the name of our government.
Well, I guess I stand corrected. Instead of
I cannot recall
or
you will have to forgive
maybe you should try actually 'looking' for objective evidence. It's a great cure for ignorance.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
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Those churches and their members better vote (R) in the next election or they'll get their faith-based funding yanked. :p
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Christian evangelicals with a statement condemning torture? Good news for America . . . the shroud has lifted.

I cannot recall any Christian religion endorsing it? I guess they don't condemn it unless they write a letter? Different rules for different people.

you will have to forgive BaliBabyDoc thats just his way of over sensationa;ozing things!

What about all of those calls on the right for moderate Muslims to stand up and condemn terrorism? Oh yeah, it's a one way street with you guys, huh?
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
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Christians should not be tied to any political party as both parties, as is very obvious, are neck-deep in defrauding and raping. It seems the Christians of today are more interested in forcing an appearance of moral cleanliness on those who do not believe... even though Christianity teaches that man cannot become morally pure through the law or his own efforts. It is a strange and dangerous hypocrisy that has made Christians the tools of the republican politicians and also made Christianity appear as something that it is not. Christians should be interested in souls and the down-trodden, not in being the moral enforcers.

B/C Christians are so wedded to the right, they have difficulty saying that what the right does is wrong. What a bad position to be in.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: spittledip
Christians should not be tied to any political party as both parties, as is very obvious, are neck-deep in defrauding and raping. It seems the Christians of today are more interested in forcing an appearance of moral cleanliness on those who do not believe... even though Christianity teaches that man cannot become morally pure through the law or his own efforts. It is a strange and dangerous hypocrisy that has made Christians the tools of the republican politicians and also made Christianity appear as something that it is not. Christians should be interested in souls and the down-trodden, not in being the moral enforcers.

B/C Christians are so wedded to the right, they have difficulty saying that what the right does is wrong. What a bad position to be in.

Oh please 80+% of our country define themselves as christian. If they wedded themselves to the right, how the hell do democrats even win elections, much less grab the majority of both houses?

Guess who predominately votes democrat? Catholics! I'd check your own backyard first before you start blaming everything on Christians. Because without the biggest single entity of christians in this country, democrats would most likely have as much sway in elections as the Communist Party of America. In other words a fringe group of leftist whackjobs who might win a few seats in some random district.



 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Hmm . . . looks like I lost some early contributors. Come back guys . . . you should be proud of being wrong most of the time. Don't worry about looking intelligent or moral. All you have to do is say Jesus is your favorite philosopher and you too . . . could be President.

Can I get a tax cut . . . Amen!
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Hmm . . . looks like I lost some early contributors. Come back guys . . . you should be proud of being wrong most of the time. Don't worry about looking intelligent or moral. All you have to do is say Jesus is your favorite philosopher and you too . . . could be President.

Can I get a tax cut . . . Amen!

Looks like you dropped out of medical school for troll school and seeing immediate results. What, steeplerot takes a hike and you decide to carry his weight?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
^^Forgive him . . . he knows not what he says . . . but enjoys the flavor of his own tripe.

I will take that as a yes.

Carry on.