Europeans to get very large, bigger, faster and stronger hadron...

[SlitheryDee]

They missed one huge reason: basic scientific research has driven us to most of the greatest inventions. Entire industries are developed due to basic scientific research. It would be as if we could travel back in time, and say, "we're not helping anyone with funding for this research on electrons. What the hell good are these electron things. They're smaller than this so-called atom."

There's a Heinlein quote for everything.

"... scientific research, no matter how 'pure' and useless it may seem, has an annoying habit of paying for itself many times, in the long run, in the form of greatly increased productivity." R.A.H.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

You're still free to build one. Tax yourselves to pay for it.

Edit: I should back off a bit though. I searched on New Zealand's contributions to the LHC and discovered that New Zealand in fact stepped up to the plate with just shy of NZ$200k.

You don't understand. It would have paid for itself by now, in basic research, science advocacy, and high-skilled jobs that it would have created in construction, engineering, math, physics, etc. You guys were in a unique situation of being able to swallow the costs temporarily until it yielded return, but you just blew it and let it become just another hole in the ground.

 

[IronWing]

You don't understand. It would have paid for itself by now, in basic research, science advocacy, and high-skilled jobs that it would have created in construction, engineering, math, physics, etc. You guys were in a unique situation of being able to swallow the costs temporarily until it yielded return, but you just blew it and let it become just another hole in the ground.

I understand completely. You want supertoys but you want someone else to pay for them. Despite the rhetoric displayed here, the US continues to heavily fund basic research. The cancellation of the SCSC was not the end of US science and quite frankly it is long past time for physicists to stop pouting about it.

 

[Broheim]

The French thought they were well prepared before WWII as well. . . After all, Germany was on a leash after WWI, and they had the Maginot line.

Assuming attack by superior ground forces, because Europe does not have anywhere near enough tanks, Europe lacks the air and naval superiority to launch a counter offensive, let alone defend their own airspace or waters. Also Europe does not have a good track record of coming to allies aid quickly enough to alter the outcome in the midst of an attack.

I doubt Russia alone would be the aggressor, however if Russia and China were to decide to return to their old ways of communist hegemony and invade Europe the mainland would fold very quickly. I'm sure they would put up a good fight, but the math would be against them. This may seem far fetched now, however things are not so rosey in Russia that I would discount a possible communist resurgence at some point as people look for an alternative to the political system they have currently.

The time to retool and build your army is not after the battle has begun, you go to war with the army you have.

Being as many of the players in such a scenario have nukes, the question would be whether Europe would launch in the face of such an invasion, or more importantly whether their enemy would think that they would. Europe has been on a moral high horse for quite a while now, I would honestly doubt the credibility of any European nation's threats of MAD.

the EU navy is bigger than the US navy, sure we don't have as many big carriers as the US for pelvic thrusting our way around the globe but we could lock down our waters tighter than a republican's asshole in a gay bar. the Chinese plus Russian navy would match us but China lacks the blue water capability to put its navy in European waters.

China plus Russia would have a larger number of Tanks, but we could field a larger force of MODERN MBTs, and China doesn't have the capability to put any meaningful number of vehicles and troops in the European theater.

we would also be more than able to maintain superiority in our own airspace because the Chinese -again- can't and wont put all their fighters in the European theater, that would leave them completely open to all the other players in Asia they've pissed off.

Russia and China simply wouldn't be able to take Europe today and there will be plenty of warning if they intend to. The EU defense budget is bigger than Russia's and China's put together yet is a smaller % of our GDP, we'd be able to outspend them in an arms race.

 

[Vdubchaos]

money sucking pigs? The new Ford Carrier cost $12 billion. For one fucking ship. Who the hell are we fighting with an aircraft carrier in 2013?

A much better investment would have been a large scale research project such as the LHC.

Why wouldn't corp/business suck Tax money out of us if they can/allowed to?

 

[Jeff7]

Well, this has degraded somewhat. Let me throw a log on the fire:

Having lived in both the US and Germany, traveled extensively throughout Europe, and travel back and forth to work, I can only say that the quality of life in northern European countries is far better than in the US. Average intelligence is far greater as well. The US is full of what is essentially sloppy trailer trash that shouldn't be permitted to vote. But they do and continually elect idiots that in turn fvck them over with their own taxpayer money. One way out of many in which they are fvcked is the continued planned deterioration of our education system designed to maintain the exact same fvcked-up status quo.

Just had someone stop by during lunch, a former employee. Listening in on that:

"I was full Democrat until I got the sales job, which paid commission and bonuses. My bonuses are taxed at 40%. Now I vote all Republican."


*sigh*

Yup, some people really support certain causes and ideologies. Until you wave a dollar bill at them.
Ok, so you're with a different party. Unfortunately, the main difference is that the new party uses an unscented lube, whereas the old one had a little bit of a minty scent. But the basic problem still remains.

 

[Gibsons]

Just had someone stop by during lunch, a former employee. Listening in on that:

"I was full Democrat until I got the sales job, which paid commission and bonuses. My bonuses are taxed at 40%. Now I vote all Republican."


*sigh*

Yup, some people really support certain causes and ideologies. Until you wave a dollar bill at them.
Ok, so you're with a different party. Unfortunately, the main difference is that the new party uses an unscented lube, whereas the old one had a little bit of a minty scent. But the basic problem still remains.

"I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.' 'I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.' 'Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding out both puppets!"

 

[pmv]

We do have a hadron collider. It's simply located in Europe. The US paid for more than 10% of the LHC bill and has been involved in most of the experiments. It was a wise move to let the Eurotopians deal with the black holes and head crabs.

http://www.uslhc.us/

LOL. Unfortunately I don't think black holes are big on respecting national borders!

(Even the financial ones tend to expand beyond their originating country, as we saw with both the US junk mortgage crisis and the Eurozone fiasco.)

As for headcrabs - Europe may not have as many guns, but we have plenty of crowbars.

 

[pmv]

Just had someone stop by during lunch, a former employee. Listening in on that:

"I was full Democrat until I got the sales job, which paid commission and bonuses. My bonuses are taxed at 40%. Now I vote all Republican."


*sigh*

Yup, some people really support certain causes and ideologies. Until you wave a dollar bill at them.
Ok, so you're with a different party. Unfortunately, the main difference is that the new party uses an unscented lube, whereas the old one had a little bit of a minty scent. But the basic problem still remains.

P&N - the black hole that swallows entire forums.