European Union Democracy

[Dari]

Why does the European Union re-submit referendums after the people have said "No" the first time? How come they never do the same after a "Yes" vote?

When they finally get the "approval" from the citizens, do they breathe a sigh of relief or feel emboldened by the "mandate" of the people?

Is this turning Europeans into cynics faster than our leaders in this country?

 

[Infohawk]

Joining the European Union is sort of like losing virginity. You can turn it down as long as you want but once you're in there's no going back. Anyway, who's this "they" you are talking about? The previous European Union members?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Joining the European Union is sort of like losing virginity. You can turn it down as long as you want but once you're in there's no going back. Anyway, who's this "they" you are talking about? The previous European Union members?

By "they" I'm referring to the European Union leaders.

 

[MidasKnight]

This sounds exactly like the Portland,Oregon Mayor and the Metro council here in the good ol'blue State of Oregon.

 

[CanOWorms]

Do you have any examples of referendums they keep re-submiting?

 

[aidanjm]

If joining the EU is such a bad thing, how come so many countries are so desperate to do it?

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Dari
Why does the European Union re-submit referendums after the people have said "No" the first time? How come they never do the same after a "Yes" vote?

When they finally get the "approval" from the citizens, do they breathe a sigh of relief or feel emboldened by the "mandate" of the people?

Is this turning Europeans into cynics faster than our leaders in this country?

The EU isn't so much for the people as it is for the politicians.
It's nice idea, but it won't work.

I like this one especially

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: Dari
Why does the European Union re-submit referendums after the people have said "No" the first time? How come they never do the same after a "Yes" vote?

When they finally get the "approval" from the citizens, do they breathe a sigh of relief or feel emboldened by the "mandate" of the people?

Is this turning Europeans into cynics faster than our leaders in this country?

Welcome to politics, child.

 

[Grakatt]

Of course the EU can be exited. Not very easily, but for the country desperate enough..

The U.S and the EU are both..diversity coiled together. They are both experiments.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Grakatt
Of course the EU can be exited. Not very easily, but for the country desperate enough..

The U.S and the EU are both..diversity coiled together. They are both experiments.

Except when it really matters, a Texan and a Massachusian(???) are both Americans.
Europe doesn't have that kind of bond, I doubt many Europeans feel very strongly about other Europeans just because they're Europeans.

I feel no more commonship with a Spaniard than I do with a Japanese or Australian.
In fact, I'd probably feel more commonship with an Australian because of his native language, which I happen to be pretty decent at, unlike Spanish where my knowledge is rather basic.

Which is one of the basic reasons why I don't think the EU will work.

 

[irwincur]

From my past experiences, I have noticed that most Europeans really hate eachother. Racism and classism in Europe put their equals in America to shame.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: irwincur
From my past experiences, I have noticed that most Europeans really hate eachother. Racism and classism in Europe put their equals in America to shame.

I've never noticed that, and I've still traveled quite a bit in Europe.
Most Europeans seem to think of each other as "just any foreigner", and so do I for that matter, with the exception of Norway which will always have a special place in my heart.

Well, except for France, noone likes them

 

[dpm]

Originally posted by: irwincur
From my past experiences, I have noticed that most Europeans really hate eachother. Racism and classism in Europe put their equals in America to shame.

Hmm. I don't find it so. There's often rivalry between neighbours, but I've not really seen actual hate. And I've visited most of the EU-15.
As for racism - yes, it definitely exists, more so in certain regions, but I saw no worse living in the EU than when living in the US - they both have problems.

as for 'classism' - well, I'm British, and we are supposedly the worst of the class system offenders, but I doubt if anyone who'd visited here in the last decade would say so. As in british politics, there has been a rush to the center, and there is pretty much a tacit assumption that everyone is middle class, to the point where class hasn't been a denominator for as long as I can remember.

America seemed as classless as claimed, when I lived there, save for the 'underclass' - I've lived in and near some poor areas of Britain, but what I saw in Baltimore and Washington truly shocked me.

 

[Genx87]

This happens in the United States also.

For instance in Minnesota we have voted down a new stadium for the Vikings every year for the past decade. Yet every year it is back up looking for approval. They hope eventually apathy sets in and they get their way.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: dpm

Originally posted by: irwincur
From my past experiences, I have noticed that most Europeans really hate eachother. Racism and classism in Europe put their equals in America to shame.

Hmm. I don't find it so. There's often rivalry between neighbours, but I've not really seen actual hate.

There's definitely a friendly rivalry between some of the Scandinavian countries. There are all these jokes about Norwegians, people who live in Finland, people who live in Sweden, etc. similar to our jokes about Irishmen.

 

[irwincur]

It seems to be worse the further East you go. Western Europe is not nearly as bad.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Sunner

It's nice idea, but it won't work.

It DOES work.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
If joining the EU is such a bad thing, how come so many countries are so desperate to do it?

Because of the "so desperate" part. Europe has been fragmented since the Vikings settled most of it. The cost of fragmentation is huge and they finally realize it. They still won't be able to build a congruent nation state with the diversity of languages though. The next big step will be to select a common language like they have done with a common currency.

Oh, and I could have expounded on the banking issues, the postal issues, the visa issues, the agricultural issues, ad nausea, but that is all on the internet for those who make the effort to research.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Sunner

It's nice idea, but it won't work.

It DOES work.

No it doesn't, to quote Braveheart, they can't even agree on the color of shite.
It's not falling apart, but the EU doesn't exactly impress anyone I know either.

The Swedish government is inefficient enough as it is, I don't think we need another layer of bureaucracy on top of it.
It could work in theory, but it doesn't in practice.

As Condor pointed out, language barriers are a huge obstacle, and I don't see how that's going to work out, at least not in the forseeable future.
Agreeing on a common currency is one thing, a common language is another, and personally, the EU can try to pry the Swedish language from my cold dead hands.
Swedish first, English second, whatever you want third.
And I don't think the French, Germans, or anyone else would disagree.

Oh and even the currency project has had quite a few bumps, luckily we're not part of it.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Do you have any examples of referendums they keep re-submiting?

Switzerland had to submit a referendum to allow women to vote several times. Damn those racist commienazi Europeans.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Do you have any examples of referendums they keep re-submiting?

Switzerland had to submit a referendum to allow women to vote several times. Damn those racist commienazi Europeans.

Switzerland isn't in the EU. I would categorize their government as racist though, wouldn't you? Or do you think phrases such as "The Swiss are becoming Negroes" and pictures of brown people feasting on the blood of white children isn't racist?

 

[SuperTool]

Why does Bush resubmit his judicial nominees after they get rejected the first time?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Do you have any examples of referendums they keep re-submiting?

Switzerland had to submit a referendum to allow women to vote several times. Damn those racist commienazi Europeans.

Switzerland isn't in the EU. I would categorize their government as racist though, wouldn't you? Or do you think phrases such as "The Swiss are becoming Negroes" and pictures of brown people feasting on the blood of white children isn't racist?

One big examples would be the Nice Treaty in Ireland. It was voted down the first time and passed the second time, with the smallest of margins.

Something similar was the European constitution, which was voted down because of haggling between the big and small powers. It was eventually "passed sometime last year. The coming referendums on that should be fun.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
If joining the EU is such a bad thing, how come so many countries are so desperate to do it?

for many of the new poorer ones... economic aid.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: aidanjm
If joining the EU is such a bad thing, how come so many countries are so desperate to do it?

for many of the new poorer ones... economic aid.

mostly though the open EU job market and easy access to other markets