European Stock Market Capitalisation Exceeds US Markets for First Time Since Before WWI

[Termagant]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/bf6a00e4-e14b-1...0d4e4-6714-11da-a650-0000779e2340.html

The rise of the euro against the dollar, growth of east European markets such as Russia and stock market outperformance spurred by improving profitability have seen Europe close a long-held gap with the US. Ian Harnett at Absolute Strategy Research, who identified the move, said this marked a ?seismic shift? in markets.

The last time Europe eclipsed the US in market capitalisation was likely to have been before the first world war, said Mike Staunton, stock-market historian at London Business School.

Europe trails the US on the indices of market capitalisation compiled by FTSE and MSCI and which are used by fund managers as benchmarks.
However, these have a reduced or no weighting to shares that cannot be freely traded such as holdings of governments or controlling family shareholders. Europe has more companies with such stakes.

According to geopolitical experts in this forum, Europe will soon be the next Islamic Shiara Law Caliphate. Does this resurgent post Cold War growth in European economies mean that the Islamic Caliphate will be a global economic power?

On a more serious note, does this statistic reveal anything about shifting balance of power? Recently commentators have claimed that "Old Europe" is withering while the US, India, and China will be a new economic and political triumvirate. Has anti-European Neo-Conservative sentiment among the investor class tainted their analysis of Europe's economic prowess? Would a quad or five polar world (US, EU, Islam, China, India) be possible or invariably lead to WWIII?

EDIT: Forgot link, but I quoted most of the article anyway.

 

[JS80]

How retarded. This is values of public companies. Imagine all the Private companies owned by individuals and Private Equity funds in the US. Look at all the M&A and PE activity going on. TXU went private for $32 billion. Equity Office went private for $39 billion and is erased from the statistc.

This is a meaningless statistic that reveals nothing. There is no shift in the balance of power [to Europe].

 

[Stunt]

Agreed.
Public company equity is not an indication of power, although GDP and growth is.

EU: $13.9trillion (2.8% growth)

US: $12.5trillion (3.2% growth)

The story I find more intersting is the new 'Americas' economy where Canada/US/Mexico are making trade easier and effective (starting something similar to europe and the EU - free trade of labour, goods and services, and one currency). A north american economy is $14.2trillion with 3.1% growth.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Termagant
According to geopolitical experts in this forum, Europe will soon be the next Islamic Shiara Law Caliphate. Does this resurgent post Cold War growth in European economies mean that the Islamic Caliphate will be a global economic power?

Geopolitical expert? You stretch too far for answers. #1 boys name, the demographics of the maternity wards are all you need to witness Europe's future today. When the youths are burning down France, the key phrase is that they are youthful. They are the future generations.

If the revolutions in Europe are peaceful or not will determine how their governments and markets survive the change with their newfound religion.

 

[ProfJohn]

I believe the EU has the same or more land and a larger population than the US so this should not be a huge surprise.

Although I thought we still had a bigger GDP than them?

 

[Mxylplyx]

This seems like a typical case of a journalist making the news, as opposed to reporting it. They took the capital markets of one country, and compared it to the combined markets of like half the civilized world? How is this relevant? I look at it as a citizen of the U.S., and feel pretty damn good about it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Of course all the resident Apologists chime in but alude to the fact this has happened under their heroe's watch.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Termagant
According to geopolitical experts in this forum, Europe will soon be the next Islamic Shiara Law Caliphate. Does this resurgent post Cold War growth in European economies mean that the Islamic Caliphate will be a global economic power?

Geopolitical expert? You stretch too far for answers. #1 boys name, the demographics of the maternity wards are all you need to witness Europe's future today. When the youths are burning down France, the key phrase is that they are youthful. They are the future generations.

If the revolutions in Europe are peaceful or not will determine how their governments and markets survive the change with their newfound religion.

America looks like the last supper

1 Jacob Emily
2 Michael Emma
3 Joshua Madison
4 Matthew Abigail
5 Ethan Olivia
6 Andrew Isabella
7 Daniel Hannah
8 Anthony Samantha
9 Christopher Ava
10 Joseph Ashley

Popular Baby Names

Why don't people name their kids Earl anymore

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl
Why don't people name their kids Earl anymore

With the TV show we should see a come back of that name right? I mean look at the Earl on TV, who wouldn't want to name their child after him?

 

[Termagant]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Termagant
According to geopolitical experts in this forum, Europe will soon be the next Islamic Shiara Law Caliphate. Does this resurgent post Cold War growth in European economies mean that the Islamic Caliphate will be a global economic power?

Geopolitical expert? You stretch too far for answers. #1 boys name, the demographics of the maternity wards are all you need to witness Europe's future today. When the youths are burning down France, the key phrase is that they are youthful. They are the future generations.

If the revolutions in Europe are peaceful or not will determine how their governments and markets survive the change with their newfound religion.

America looks like the last supper

1 Jacob Emily
2 Michael Emma
3 Joshua Madison
4 Matthew Abigail
5 Ethan Olivia
6 Andrew Isabella
7 Daniel Hannah
8 Anthony Samantha
9 Christopher Ava
10 Joseph Ashley

Popular Baby Names

Why don't people name their kids Earl anymore

I thought the #1 US name was Jose or Pedro. With all the gloom and doom about illegal aliens I'm surprised "Caucasians" are even breeding anymore. Basically much gnashing of teeth when the skin tone of the community darkens.

 

[LegendKiller]

Figures some doofs would check in with doomsday crap.

1. EU has almost 500 million inhabitants.

2. US has 300 million.

3. Market cap doesn't mean anything, float, relative P/E ratios compared to the cap, and amount of private equity skews any comparisons.

4. If every company in the US were private then what?

5. Who gives a crap? The US is still the single most largest market for goods and services and continues to grow at a very good pace, faster than EU.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Agreed.
Public company equity is not an indication of power, although GDP and growth is.

EU: $13.9trillion (2.8% growth)

US: $12.5trillion (3.2% growth)

The story I find more intersting is the new 'Americas' economy where Canada/US/Mexico are making trade easier and effective (starting something similar to europe and the EU - free trade of labour, goods and services, and one currency). A north american economy is $14.2trillion with 3.1% growth.

The EU has about 450M people compared to the 300M in the US.

 

[sandorski]

Last year the value of released Euros exceeded that of $US as well. For the first time. Could be the beginning of a trend.

 

[Rainsford]

Whichever group is "winning", I think it's pretty clear that Europe is a powerful economic force, and not the dead or dying "old world" a lot of conservatives in the United States seem to think it is.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Whichever group is "winning", I think it's pretty clear that Europe is a powerful economic force, and not the dead or dying "old world" a lot of conservatives in the United States seem to think it is.

Well it defiantly has less GDP per capita and slower growth.

 

[Mardeth]

The small countries of the EU are doing great. The bigger ones (Italy especially) arent doing so great and are the ones that make up for most of the statistics. Finland GDP growth: 5% and Estonia: 10%+.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Whichever group is "winning", I think it's pretty clear that Europe is a powerful economic force, and not the dead or dying "old world" a lot of conservatives in the United States seem to think it is.

Or maybe they're referring to lavish social services which needs to be paid for? The short term fix are immigrants, the long term fix is to cut those services or go broke.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Mardeth
The small countries of the EU are doing great. The bigger ones (Italy especially) arent doing so great and are the ones that make up for most of the statistics. Finland GDP growth: 5% and Estonia: 10%+.

Italian GDP growth actually outpaced France and Germany in the last few years, quite impressive if you consider they have a rapidly aging population.

The number quoted from that article are quite confused.. because many things are going on in the stock markets at the same time...

a) The ratio of public companies to GDP is actually lower in Europe than in the US. This should skew the results in favor of the US not the EU area. If I remember correctly the only countries with a higher public companies/GDP than the US are Japan and Switzerland.

b) EU has more population, and recently integrated new members with underdeveloped, but fast rising, economies. Eastern European stock markets are doing tremendously good.

c) Many foreign companies are listed on British and US markets (think ADRs) and greatly affect market capitalization. These results are quite surprising if you consider the amount of US markets listed Chinese and Indian companies.

My personal opinion is that what we see here is largely the effect of Euro/Dollar exchange rates. If you convert EU market capitalization in US dollars you basically get 30% more than a few years ago just from that. It might or might not be considered a distortion.

 

[thujone]

"the economy is fake anyway"
-bill hicks

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Of course all the resident Apologists chime in but alude to the fact this has happened under their heroe's watch.

Would you prefer if we bombed Europe back into the stone age Dave? This has nothing to do with any specific economic policies in the United States. The U.S. has dominated all this time because the rest of the world was generally poor as dirt. This is a sign of much of the world slowly obtaining a standard of living similar to someone in Mississippi, which is quite an improvement.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Agreed.
Public company equity is not an indication of power, although GDP and growth is.

EU: $13.9trillion (2.8% growth)

US: $12.5trillion (3.2% growth)

The story I find more intersting is the new 'Americas' economy where Canada/US/Mexico are making trade easier and effective (starting something similar to europe and the EU - free trade of labour, goods and services, and one currency). A north american economy is $14.2trillion with 3.1% growth.

The future will be between China and Europe as America falls by the wayside, provided America continues on its current path. It's still a strong enough nation to delay or even turnaround its downfall. Japan has the same capability, though.
There's also no guarantee that China won't collapse under its own weight and economic policies. I'd say Europe is the only safe economy right now.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Stunt
Agreed.
Public company equity is not an indication of power, although GDP and growth is.

EU: $13.9trillion (2.8% growth)

US: $12.5trillion (3.2% growth)

The story I find more intersting is the new 'Americas' economy where Canada/US/Mexico are making trade easier and effective (starting something similar to europe and the EU - free trade of labour, goods and services, and one currency). A north american economy is $14.2trillion with 3.1% growth.

The future will be between China and Europe as America falls by the wayside, provided America continues on its current path. It's still a strong enough nation to delay or even turnaround its downfall. Japan has the same capability, though.
There's also no guarantee that China won't collapse under its own weight and economic policies. I'd say Europe is the only safe economy right now.

Yeah, a country of 300 million relatively affluent people will just fall by the wayside.

Seriously, have you opened your eyes?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Stunt
Agreed.
Public company equity is not an indication of power, although GDP and growth is.

EU: $13.9trillion (2.8% growth)

US: $12.5trillion (3.2% growth)

The story I find more intersting is the new 'Americas' economy where Canada/US/Mexico are making trade easier and effective (starting something similar to europe and the EU - free trade of labour, goods and services, and one currency). A north american economy is $14.2trillion with 3.1% growth.

The future will be between China and Europe as America falls by the wayside, provided America continues on its current path. It's still a strong enough nation to delay or even turnaround its downfall. Japan has the same capability, though.
There's also no guarantee that China won't collapse under its own weight and economic policies. I'd say Europe is the only safe economy right now.

Eh? The EU had higher unemployment, lower birth rates, and an unstable future in terms of politics.

I think as the Europeans die off and the Muslims take over, you will see a radical change in politics and economics. Not that I think their current model can beat us, but you throw in totalitarian islam and it gets ugly. I firmly believe this is a two horse race for the next 50 years between China and the United States.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Stunt
Agreed.
Public company equity is not an indication of power, although GDP and growth is.

EU: $13.9trillion (2.8% growth)

US: $12.5trillion (3.2% growth)

The story I find more intersting is the new 'Americas' economy where Canada/US/Mexico are making trade easier and effective (starting something similar to europe and the EU - free trade of labour, goods and services, and one currency). A north american economy is $14.2trillion with 3.1% growth.

The future will be between China and Europe as America falls by the wayside, provided America continues on its current path. It's still a strong enough nation to delay or even turnaround its downfall. Japan has the same capability, though.
There's also no guarantee that China won't collapse under its own weight and economic policies. I'd say Europe is the only safe economy right now.

Eh? The EU had higher unemployment, lower birth rates, and an unstable future in terms of politics.

I think as the Europeans die off and the Muslims take over, you will see a radical change in politics and economics. Not that I think their current model can beat us, but you throw in totalitarian islam and it gets ugly. I firmly believe this is a two horse race for the next 50 years between China and the United States.

Why don't people actually look at some numbers, model and projections before feeling like they can have an opinion?

Do you have any idea about how big the Muslim population is in the EU? How big will it be in 2050 or 2100? I'll give you a hint: single digit percentage...

 

[KIRBYEE]

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