European revolution - in our time or not?

[Bitek]

My wife's fam is British, and her grandparents talk how many of their friends have grandsons and daughters that have no jobs, no ambitions, uneducated and just hang out around the town doing nothing all day and night. And not just in the way all grandparents complain about today's kids. Its a real problem.

Visiting them there you def see all the chavs around. Seem like a lot of the looters and hooligans are the same people.

My impression is they are pretty lazy and spoiled and need to get their asses kicked and put to work. There are all sorts of reasons that a large part of a generation has gone that they will surely get debated, but the solution seems clear enough. I hope the police go in and crack some heads.
And this is coming from a left leaning American.

 

[sandorski]

How'd that work out for the Libyans? Or most of the other middle eastern revolutionaries? They got slaughtered while begging the world for weapons.

Libya is still ongoing. What exactly are you trying to say? Those countries have little in common to Western Democracies.

 

[Bitek]

IOW.. They are the same as the ghetto trash we have here, with the big difference being we think it all has to do with race and the "scars of slavery" just because these people tend to be overrepresented by a few minority groups. Most those chavs are white kids in the UK. British apologists claim its all due to classism.

Ghetto/Chavs is not a race but a culture and lifestyle.
Similarities:

• Live in urban areas or run down industrial cities? Check
  
• Be uneducated, unemployed and can barely speak the native language? Check
• Have no ambitions or goals in life, other than getting girls pregnant? Check
• At best make minimum wage, but dress like a clown in (fake) designer clothes, way too much crap jewelery, and pimp out some old shit car? Check
• Hangout in town all day drinking, smoking weed and getting in fights? Check
• Cause of much of the theft and crime in your shitty neighborhood? Check
• Be an embarrassment to humanity and be hated by everyone around you? Check
• Anyone with money moves as far away as they can from you? Check

Ghetto trash:

Chav:

Only difference is that ghetto trash has easy access to guns in the US and they will shoot your fking ass, and chavs just run their mouths and hang out in big groups so they can more easily attack and rob people.

They are both related trailer trash, but are closer to each other than their rural cousins.

 

[Argo]

Someone posted some numbers the other day, I cant find em. Sorry mate.

But it makes sense. Social mobility is much easier in Europe. Threre's a lot of support, good public schools, cheap University etc.

If you're born poor in America you're kinda fucked. Where are you gonna get 100k for collage?

UHC and things like that make a difference too. Even if you're poor, getting sick doesnt ruin you.

Please do find them. Without those numbers I'm skeptical.

 

[dmcowen674]

Guillotines eh? How do those fair against the most advanced, well funded military in the world?

Very well, the equipment does not function well without a head.

 

[novasatori]

Please do find them. Without those numbers I'm skeptical.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/100/314907191_1af9f7ab61_o.jpg

US is the lowest of all those countries besides Switzerland (surprise)

 

[CanOWorms]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/100/314907191_1af9f7ab61_o.jpg

US is the lowest of all those countries besides Switzerland (surprise)

That doesn't show the appropriate data. It seems that a lot of it is quite old, too. I'm sure that there is something better.

 

[Monster_Munch]

My wife's fam is British, and her grandparents talk how many of their friends have grandsons and daughters that have no jobs, no ambitions, uneducated and just hang out around the town doing nothing all day and night. And not just in the way all grandparents complain about today's kids. Its a real problem.

I think it was worse in the 80s. Soccer hooligans used to be on the news almost daily, starting riots in the street and fighting rival gangs. And before that you had the mods and rockers in the 60s.

 

[Broheim]

I don't buy the middle class is bigger in europe argument. Care to back that up with numbers?

The few times I've been in europe everything seemed prohibitively expensive, and people lived in tiny houses that were smaller than an average American garage.

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but Denmark is just one big middle class, we have the highest income equality in the world.

if everything was so expensive perhaps it's time to ask for a raise?

the square footage price is much higher over here, my parents house was valued at just under a million dollars and it's only 1,500-ish square feet.

 

[Monster_Munch]

I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but Denmark is just one big middle class, we have the highest income equality in the world.

Places like Denmark and Norway are the ideal I guess. The UK is more like Italy or the US. We have a lot of wealthy people, but a lot of poverty as well.

 

[WelshBloke]

That doesn't show the appropriate data. It seems that a lot of it is quite old, too. I'm sure that there is something better.

 

[CanOWorms]

The GINI coefficient is for income distribution within a country. 2 countries can have the same #, but different standards of wealth.

 

[Abwx]

As a tax professional I'm quite interested in reading more about this. Would you please provide a link?

Theoretically it's possible, but unlikely for a number of reasons I won't go into here.

Would be difficult , but who knows?..
Here, in France , the stock exchange main corporates , i.e, called the CAC40,although being theorically taxed at about 30% rate of net income, have been proved to pay only a mere 8.2%, less than a meddle class
worker , who, shamelessly , is taxed with of 70% all his salary as being considered being a net income....

That s quite a fiscal perf for these corporates,considering that more than 100bn euros are at stake...

 

[WelshBloke]

The GINI coefficient is for income distribution within a country. 2 countries can have the same #, but different standards of wealth.

So? What figures are you looking for? I thought you wanted income inequality.

 

[CanOWorms]

So? What figures are you looking for? I thought you wanted income inequality.

I didn't ask for anything, but the other poster is looking for data showing that the middle class is bigger in Europe.

I think that this would involve debate on the definition of middle class, normalizing it between all countries, and then looking at the data.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

I didn't ask for anything, but the other poster is looking for data showing that the middle class is bigger in Europe.

I think that this would involve debate on the definition of middle class, normalizing it between all countries, and then looking at the data.

That doesn't exist. The definition of 'middle class' differs between country.

If there was it would be a tie between Australia, Norway and Switzerland.

And Australia wins because we have better weather.

 

[Abwx]

If there was it would be a tie between Australia, Norway and Switzerland.

These are small countries ,otherwise Germany is the nation
that has the bigger meddle class , and by far.

Indeed, there is no social classes in this country.

 

[PingviN]

What's going in in the UK is not a revolution, it's a riot. There is no political cause, just a bunch of opportunistic punk kids throwing rocks at the police and looting their own neighborhood. Parasitical behavior and nothing else.

Will we see a real revolution again in Europe? Probably not in any foreseeable future, what's there to revolutionize?

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

These are small countries ,otherwise Germany is the nation
that has the bigger meddle class , and by far.

Indeed, there is no social classes in this country.

This kinda proves my point. What is middle class?

Germanys GDP PPP is way lower than the countries I mentioned but it's arguable that they have a bigger middle class.

 

[randomrogue]

Rioting is part of the political system in many parts of Europe. France is a prime example. Since everything is state run in order to get their voice heard they have to be really loud. They can't go to another hospital or another doctor. If they want change they have to kick the crap out of their government.

In the states if we don't like our healthcare we can change providers. Huge difference. However one of these days we're gonna figure out that HMO's and our healthcare system are really screwing us and we'll stand up and make a lot of noise. The difference is that we will have many different steps to go before it hits the riot stage. First we'll change providers, then we'll change congressman, then we'll change presidents, then manybe then we'll riot. Since we haven't really gotten beyond the first stage I don't see riots in our immediate future.

 

[Abwx]

This kinda proves my point. What is middle class?

Germanys GDP PPP is way lower than the countries I mentioned but it's arguable that they have a bigger middle class.

A number say it all : the %age of total income that goes to the 10%
richer and the 10% poorer.

richest 10% get 31% of Total Income in the US while they have 22.1% in Germany.
At the other side , the 10% the poorer get 4.8% of TI in US vs 6.8% in Germ.

Also, since the total added value is< more equally distributed , salaries
are relatively high despite a GDP/capitae that seems not that impressive,
unless one think that Germany GDP is mainly built upon real goods rather
than theorical GDP built on worthless overpriced services.

In other words, when Mercedes pay its taxes, it give up a part of its
cars , while when a lawyer cabinet do the same, the taxes he pays
are no more than validating monetary creation with no real equity
to balance it.

Beside, this country is famed in Europe as it has the most
generous welfare state by there.

Btw, i learned recently that they have a SIX weeks/year paid vacancy system..

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

A number say it all : the %age of total income that goes to the 10%
richer and the 10% poorer.

richest 10% get 31% of Total Income in the US while they have 22.1% in Germany.
At the other side , the 10% the poorer get 4.8% of TI in US vs 6.8% in Germ.

Also, since the total added value is< more equally distributed , salaries
are relatively high despite a GDP/capitae that seems not that impressive,
unless one think that Germany GDP is mainly built upon real goods rather
than theorical GDP built on worthless overpriced services.

In other words, when Mercedes pay its taxes, it give up a part of its
cars , while when a lawyer cabinet do the same, the taxes he pays
are no more than validating monetary creation with no real equity
to balance it.

Yeah, and that's just 'income' distribution. When you look at 'wealth' the U.S. looks even worse. The top 10% own the U.S.

But don't hate on Service economys. You like that Operating System you're using? That's not classed as a manufactured good. Not all of our 'service' goods are useless.

 

[Abwx]

But don't hate on Service economys. You like that Operating System you're using? That's not classed as a manufactured good. Not all of our 'service' goods are useless.

Service economy was at the start just outsourcing of some parts
of the big corporate s activities, but services need a powerfull industry
to be themselves of real value.

So it goes for the OS of our computers, they rely on the semiconductors
industry to have a relevance, and it happen that most of this industry
has been offshored.

In a way, USA are generous by exporting their facilities...

 

[Doppel]

Holy crap, does CoW not even go to bed? Look at his post times or is he maybe just an anti-Europe bot and/or sets his posting to delay with some software?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Yeah, and that's just 'income' distribution. When you look at 'wealth' the U.S. looks even worse. The top 10% own the U.S.

But don't hate on Service economys. You like that Operating System you're using? That's not classed as a manufactured good. Not all of our 'service' goods are useless.

How much would you have to pay for a "middle class" home of 2k square feet?