Europe and France...some things never change...

Noobtastic

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acques Attali, French economist, prolific writer, high-ranking civil official and adviser to president François Mitterrand, dared to declare to Haaretz in October that anti-Semitism in France was a “nonexistent problem,” “a lie... not a problem at the national level... propaganda, Israeli propaganda.”

With all due respect to Attali, the demonstrations of hostility toward the Jews in France are not drying up. Besides the alarming character of the figures published by the French Home Office year after year (over the first nine months of 2009, 704 anti-Semitic acts – verbal and physical attacks, material damage and anti-Semitic graffiti – were listed compared with 350 in the same period in 2008), Judeophobia is promoted by the media. Anti-Zionism, which in their eyes never means detestation of Israel or Jews and always solidarity with the Palestinians, seems to have been promoted to respectability in France.

The echo of the Salah Hamouri affair, a French-Palestinian condemned to seven years in prison because of his 2005 plan to murder Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, is notable. He is an object of a worship in the leftist press and benefits from important support, to the point of being given the title of honorary citizen in three cities in France.

The campaign of boycotts of Israeli products since Operation Cast Lead in Gaza also has emulators. Organized by the EuroPalestine association, these “raids” in French supermarkets seize any product stamped “made in Israel,” while leaving customers gaping and shocked. Wearing green T-shirts labeled “Palestine will live” and “Boycott Israel,” they violently throw into their baskets fruits and vegetables from “territories occupied illegally by Israel.” This large-scale operation, publicized on YouTube and Dailymotion, has yet to arouse any reaction from the authorities.

France is the only European country to have witnessed the participation of an anti-Zionist list in the last European elections. The heterogeneous list consisted of radical Shi’ites, activists of the extreme Left, renegades from the National Front (the far-Right, nationalist party) and a rabbi from the anti-Zionist Natorei Karta. The figurehead of the list was Dieudonné M’balabala, a French stand-up comedian who has used satirical comedy to spread his self-described anti-Zionist views and has invited the high priest of Holocaust denial, Robert Faurisson, to join him on stage. Registered as the Anti-Zionist Party since March, the unlikely group gave as its mission to “free France from Zionism” by all means. One of its favorite slogans is “To fight against Zionism is to fight against anti-Semitism.”

THE VERY controversial book by Shlomo Sand, The Invention of the Jewish People, which met with tremendous success in France, gave rise to important media coverage and attests to this obsessive Israeli-centrism. The editorial staffs of many newspapers, broadcasters, leftist intellectuals and pro-Palestinians activists took delight in it.

Finally, a Jew, an Israeli no less, who proclaims the truth and unmuzzles the media, which was for a long time under the heel of the Zionist lobby.

Esther Benbassa, head of the department of religious studies at the Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes and a specialist in Jewish history, did not stop doing the rounds of TV shows immediately after the publication of her book To Be Jewish After Gaza.

There is not a discussion involving the Arab-Israeli conflict in which the zealots of the liberation of Palestine do not mention these two authors, who serve as their alibi. How can they be named as anti-Semites, for they are referred to, with respect and admiration, as two Jewish historians?

Obviously, nobody hates the Jews, but the “Zionists” – which in a few years became a loathed term, a slanderous insult, a synonym for all the evils in the world: capitalism, imperialism, colonialism and racism. The compulsive hysteria provoked by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reminds us of the feat accomplished more than a century ago by a Jewish captain called Alfred Dreyfus, who for 12 years managed to capture the emotions and concerns of a nation, and to split the French population. Indeed, today, in the same way, anyone in this country, any individual, whatever his/her historical knowledge or political background, already has an opinion on the matter and claims he would be able to discourse learnedly about it.

Some neighborhoods of Paris are more prone than others to this kind of rejoicing, in particular in the northeast, where a large majority of Muslims live. Let us take for example the neighborhood of Barbès, fief of the Algerian community and during religious or sports celebrations, the point of convergence of all the people originally from the Maghreb. Here the setting does not allow any confusion of professed political beliefs: Open-air Friday sermons systematically emphasize the “monstrousness of the Zionist entity,” posters and stickers show Palestinian children burned or disemboweled with the slogans “Shoah in Gaza,” “Israelis Nazis,” “Let us free the world from the Zionist influence.” Here there are demonstrations in which Trotskyites mix with fanatical Islamists brandishing Hamas banners.

During the recent qualifying of the Algerian soccer team for the South Africa World Cup, gigantic festivities took place in the neighborhood. Several thousand people of Maghrebi origin, all generations together dressed in green and white, flocked to the neighborhood to celebrate their victory. Until, for some reasons, youth started shouting “Allahu akbar! Death to Israel! Osama bin Laden! Death to Israel!” It was soon repeated by the crowd. The following day, the press described a party where “a friendly atmosphere” reigned (Paris Match, Libération, November 19, 2009).

IF THE streets form an excellent indicator of the degree of hatred the Jews are subject to, there are others, less reported by the media, more insidious, whose impact is difficult to estimate. This story happened last February, in a big high school in a posh Parisian neighborhood, where Mr. K. has taught philosophy for 20 years. K., a “layman, republican and universalistic Jew,” as he likes defining himself, was born in Egypt in 1948 of communist parents. Experienced activists, they were imprisoned before being forced into exile. Anti-Zionists from the very beginning, they naturally chose France, whose culture and language they shared. If religion was absent from their home, the narratives of the deportations and the Nazi extermination had deeply affected the young K., empowering him with a “Jewish consciousness.”

http://www.jpost.com/Features/InThespotlight/Article.aspx?id=174785

So basically, Europe has become a political twin of the Muslim world.

In post-1967 Arab/Muslim world, anti-semitism did not exist. It was "ant-zionism." These accusations were used as a pretext to discriminate against the Jewish minority, confiscate their land, massacre, them, etc.

This ultimately precipitated the flight of ~900,000+ Jews, most of whom went to Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

In the Soviet Union, antisemitism didn't exist either. No, it was "ant-zionism."

Soviet Union even created a government-sanction department, run by Jews no less, dedicating to researching the threat of Zionism to the world and anti-racists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionist_Committee_of_the_Soviet_Public

Naturally, because it was run by Jews - those accusing it of antisemitism were easily silenced. The anti-zionist committee pumped out sophisticated propaganda to discredit the 1,000,000+ Jews living in Russia, most of whom wanted to leave because of the massive and institutionalized discrimination.

Many were sent to the gulags...some disappeared.

What is happening in Europe is a stark reminder of what has happened in the past.

Antisemitism is at a level highest only since WWII. A sizable minority of Jews, especially in scandanvian countries, are considering emigrating out of the continent.

Is anyone else pissed off over this? I expect this type of shit in the Muslim world - but in Europe, after 85% of its Jewish population was exterminated...you''d think by now they would have learned.

Just...just repulsive.

I'm sure the leftists here are gonna be all - "you're just trying to silence critics of israel by calling them antisemitic blah blah blah!!!11"

I'm doing no such thing. Right now we're beyond run of the mill criticism. Europe is taking out its hatred of Israel on its own Jewish population, and European leaders dubiously say this isn't happening...even though statistics overwhelmingly disagree.


 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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Basically yep, european left=antisemitic
european right =antisemetic
european muslim population=antisemetic
w00t!
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
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maybe we could have moonbeam talk to them...

and the french deny all race/ethnic issues... this is just the logical direction that moves in...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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IHV seems to have raised a interesting question, in terms of what is fueling the rise of anti-Semitic ism in France? According to wiki, Jews are 0.8% of the French population, very small, but still one of the highest percentages in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

On the other hand, I get all sorts of wide ranging estimates for the Muslim population in France, but if we accept about 6% as accurate, the Muslims outnumber Jews 7.5 or so to one.

And since the foreign policy of Israel is not exactly loved by its surrounding Muslim neighbors, I think we can more look to the foreign policy of Israel as the likely source in the rise in French antisemitism. In short, what goes on in the middle east is reflected in France, or where ever.

And as I keep researching the question, the Scandinavian countries have picked up a substantial Muslim percentage, and I think we can look to the Muslim immigrants and not the native Scandinavians as the source of rising Antisemitism.

Which then default back to what previous threads have said. When Israel and the Palestinians can make a just mid-east peace, which will then greatly defuse religious frictions in the mid-east, that same reduction in religious tension will happen in France and Scandinavian countries. Unfortunately the converse is true, as mid-east tensions rise, so does antisemitism.
 
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Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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The Muslims are more hated in France and Europe than the Jews among those who aren't Muslims.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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The Muslims are more hated in France and Europe than the Jews among those who aren't Muslims.
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I believe Red Dawn is right, but it still does not matter. In many places in Europe its Muslim on Jewish violence while the larger country pretends not to notice.

In one place, namely Malmo, Sweeden, the Mayor has instructed the police to look the other way. And violence there has really gotten out of hand as many Jewish families are being forced to leave.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
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snip

Which then default back to what previous threads have said. When Israel and the Palestinians can make a just mid-east peace, which will then greatly defuse religious frictions in the mid-east, that same reduction in religious tension will happen in France and Scandinavian countries. Unfortunately the converse is true, as mid-east tensions rise, so does antisemitism.

you are soooo funny some days... they'll just use history instead of current events as an excuse... that's why we can't afford to have people like you making policy...
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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I believe Red Dawn is right, but it still does not matter. In many places in Europe its Muslim on Jewish violence while the larger country pretends not to notice.

In one place, namely Malmo, Sweeden, the Mayor has instructed the police to look the other way. And violence there has really gotten out of hand as many Jewish families are being forced to leave.
I wasn't aware of that (Muslim vs Jewish) but I am aware of Euro vs Muslim conficts. In Denmark the Muslim community is a major source for criminal activity, so much so that other Orgs that are usually involved in it are taking up arms against them such as Biker Gangs . There is a war going on between the HA's and their puppet gangs against the Muslim criminal groups with out in the open attacks on each other in what was once a previously non violent society which has the Pols and public extremely alarmed.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Again, Red Dawn is correct in saying there is a lot of unfair native European discrimination against their recently imported Muslim populations, and when paired with discrimination in employment, it becomes a more socially explosive issue.

But the more I research the issue, the Muslim on Jewish violence in "Europe" seems to correlate strongly with events in the mid-east. And with French and Scandinavian countries having far larger Muslim populations than their corresponding Jewish populations, its the tiny Jewish minority that catches hell in those countries while Jews in Israel get to thumb their nose with impunity at their surrounding Arab and Palestinian neighbors.

Or to put it another way, just because Muslims in Europe are the victims of discrimination, does not mean that Muslims in Europe can't discriminate against Jews at the same time.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
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let's see... to assuage their guilt for some perceived evil the govt's of these countries let in immigrants who are totally fucking up their societies... priceless...

yet another lesson we probably ought to try to learn from the experience of those wild and crazy progressive europeans...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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let's see... to assuage their guilt for some perceived evil the govt's of these countries let in immigrants who are totally fucking up their societies... priceless...

yet another lesson we probably ought to try to learn from the experience of those wild and crazy progressive europeans...
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Its a lesson that the USA has already learned, time and time again. By in large the USA is a nation of immigrants and little discrimination was practiced. But for some eye opening history, try reading US news paper's from the 1830's and see how they depicted the Irish as sub human apes.

Of course when there are great skin color differences, even the USA has not compiled a great human rights assimilation record.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Thanks for the jpost update, not sure what we'd do without our Likud daily update.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Again, Red Dawn is correct in saying , and when paired with discrimination in employment, it becomes a more socially explosive issue.

But the more I research the issue, the Muslim on Jewish violence in "Europe" seems to correlate strongly with events in the mid-east. And with French and Scandinavian countries having far larger Muslim populations than their corresponding Jewish populations, its the tiny Jewish minority that catches hell in those countries while Jews in Israel get to thumb their nose with impunity at their surrounding Arab and Palestinian neighbors.

Or to put it another way, just because Muslims in Europe are the victims of discrimination, does not mean that Muslims in Europe can't discriminate against Jews at the same time.

there is a lot of unfair native European discrimination against their recently imported Muslim populations.....right!! rofl@Lemon law the Muslim apologist!!
Pro Palestinian all the way!! Pro Muslim all the way!!

Sad...very sad.......
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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maybe we could have moonbeam talk to them...

and the French deny all race/ethnic issues... this is just the logical direction that moves in...

The French are as American as New Orleans. I love American so naturally I love the French. The English would have crushed our Rebellion without the French. Anybody who slams the French slams America, you dirty commie scum balls. Not you, of courses, those French ridiculing American trash.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Don't worry JEDIYoda, there is plenty of unfairness to go around.

That fact that I can see the unfairness to the hapless European Jews too does not make me biased. Your problem is that you can see Jewish discrimination with perfect clarity while being blind to the suffering of everyone else.

The other thing you seem to have major cognitive dissonance on is the fact that when Israelis inside of their own country and protected by a totally dominant military can discriminate with impunity, but when they do so, innocent Jews elsewhere catch the blame.

Yep you got it, its no damn fair to innocent Jews and Muslims in Israeli, France, or Sweden. But if your end goal is to reduce unfairness, one gets nowhere by saying we can be fair to one group and can still be unfair to the other groups.
 

Noobtastic

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Jul 9, 2005
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Its a lesson that the USA has already learned, time and time again. By in large the USA is a nation of immigrants and little discrimination was practiced. But for some eye opening history, try reading US news paper's from the 1830's and see how they depicted the Irish as sub human apes.

Of course when there are great skin color differences, even the USA has not compiled a great human rights assimilation record.

Are you from America? Anti-Irish discrimination in the north? rabid antisemitism in the 20s and 30s? treatment of chinese and asian immigrants...oh, and let's not forget SLAVERY.

Fuck, America has a long history of intolerance and bigotry, this is no secret.

the gist of this story is European governments hate Jews, or in the least will look the way other way as Jews are harassed in the public and the media to secure muslim votes.

can you think of another continent that is more fearful of pissing off muslim oil?

they control the schools, they dominate the media..the leadership has been corrupted...it's just awful.

Only when something terrible happens - a pogrom, an exodus...only then will people start crying foul.

Oh maybe the leftists will whine this is some israeli conspiracy to cover up their genocide/war crime/blah blah!1111

there is something seriously fucked about this. I can't believe how calm and casual the left is.

The go apeshit when anyone offends the Muslim world...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I can somewhat disagree and agree with the IHV contention, of "the gist of this story is European governments hate Jews, or in the least will look the way other way as Jews are harassed in the public and the media to secure muslim votes.

can you think of another continent that is more fearful of pissing off muslim oil?"
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Oh how quick IHV is to blame just the Muslims for the historical fact that Europe has a long and totally shameful history of antisemitism. And long before the start of the Muslim religion circa 800 AD, Europe had already refined Jewish antisemitism into an established tradition. But no NOOOOOOOOOO, IHV can't honestly call a spade a spade, and will not dump on the catholic church that started much of that it was rotten Jews that killed Christ antisemitism stuff. BUT BUT BUT, blaming Christianity, the religion of peace, that is now politically incorrect now a days. And blaming only Muslims is more politically correct on this forum.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I can somewhat disagree and agree with the IHV contention, of "the gist of this story is European governments hate Jews, or in the least will look the way other way as Jews are harassed in the public and the media to secure muslim votes.

can you think of another continent that is more fearful of pissing off muslim oil?"
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Oh how quick IHV is to blame just the Muslims for the historical fact that Europe has a long and totally shameful history of antisemitism. And long before the start of the Muslim religion circa 800 AD, Europe had already refined Jewish antisemitism into an established tradition. But no NOOOOOOOOOO, IHV can't honestly call a spade a spade, and will not dump on the catholic church that started much of that it was rotten Jews that killed Christ antisemitism stuff. BUT BUT BUT, blaming Christianity, the religion of peace, that is now politically incorrect now a days. And blaming only Muslims is more politically correct on this forum.
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24 hour thread bump, where are all those totally Israeli fan clubbers willing to rebut my point? The fact of the matter is that I do not want to defend Muslim antisemitism, it stinks also, but when that spineless Pro-Israeli crowd finds it politically incorrect to be honest, it boils down to an attempt to prove its OK for Israel to steal from only defensiveness Muslims while Christians, as the greater sinners are not only forgiven, but us Christians now off the hook, are also asked to endorse Israeli antisemitism against another Semitic people in the Palestinians?
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
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So basically, Europe has become a political twin of the Muslim world.

Yes that's exactly what I was thinking today, when I freely protested for electoral reform on the streets of London, and then went and got drunk. Typical day in the middle east that...
 

drinkmorejava

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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That has got to be the most fragmented and poorly thought out article that I've read in the past month.

That is all.