EU Constitution Summit Fails

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: B00ne
I dont know exactly. Nizza was a very bad compromise and it was agreed that this would have to be changed in the next summit. Because that Nizza deal would make the EU ungovernable with more members.
Poland and Spain do not want to change their position because with their voting power it is now even easier for them to press money out of the rest (well mainly us, since Germany is paying more on a per person basis than any other country). Spain on the other hand receive more than anyone else in the EU. Sonn it will be Poland in Spains position....

Anyway since they want money they will makw concession in the next round because the next thing coming up will be the financial plan for the money distribution. And since they want to continue to receive alot - they will have to give something (else)....

They should compromise then. I'm sure it's as much the Germany's and France's fault as it is Spain's and Poland's that this thing failed.

 

[heartsurgeon]

You Sir, aint got no clue - despite your polemic strong man speak

typical liberal tactic (you are a liberal i assume, because you aren't debating any facts)

my post states facts, and provides a link (to a "liberal" news outlet i might add).

you post stated only uninformed, unsupported, grammatically incorrect rhetoric

if you examine the entire history and movement of the EU, it is structured as a giant power grab by the Germans and French. They admit smaller, economically weak countries effortlessly (because they will ultimately have no political power). They resist admitting larger countries with larger economies (like Turkey), because it upsets the balance of power that exists already within the EU. The Germans and the French have demonstrated that EU rules apply to others, but not them (by ignoring EU agreements they have signed on to limiting deficit spending), and now by trying to back out of a previous agreement on how poland and spain's votes would count. The EU has chosen NOT to structure their legislature as a bicameral organization, therefore to prevent the "tyranny of the majority" they have to come up with something else to prevent france and german from dominating everyone else.

lets try debating some facts kids....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Going to take a few decades to hammer this out. I believe that over time, people there will come to see themselves as more European, and more accepting of central authority. Recall that this country was formed from Virginians and Pennsylvanians, and there was a very strong sense of states being soverign. It took time for the federal government to become supreme in power, and have it recognized as such.

Europe is hindered to some degree as there is no common language, but they have been dealing with this for a long long time, and I do not see it as insurmountable. I expect that within 50 years (a blink of an eye really), we will see something akin to the United States of Europe, with no internal border restrictions, and a common armed force directed by a central govt.

 

[boran]

me hands WinstonSmith a :beer:

well, that's my toughts exactly, sure, it will not happen from one day onto another, but it'll get there, and yes there might be disagreements, and failed conferences, but there is progress, as long as they're not falling into a yes you will / no we wont, eternal cirkle things will go ahead.

and the official reason turky is not allowed into the EU is said to be because it still violates humand rights.

they might be lying offcourse, I havent got much info on this, if you have any, please share.

 

[heartsurgeon]

here's a nice summary of EU politics....rank self interest tempered by centuries of distrust..

linky

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Going to take a few decades to hammer this out. I believe that over time, people there will come to see themselves as more European, and more accepting of central authority. Recall that this country was formed from Virginians and Pennsylvanians, and there was a very strong sense of states being soverign. It took time for the federal government to become supreme in power, and have it recognized as such.

Europe is hindered to some degree as there is no common language, but they have been dealing with this for a long long time, and I do not see it as insurmountable. I expect that within 50 years (a blink of an eye really), we will see something akin to the United States of Europe, with no internal border restrictions, and a common armed force directed by a central govt.

That is very true, although the situation in europe is harder. Before 1776, the states were colonies, not sovereign countries, so giving up power to a federa goverment wasn't as big of a sacrifice for them.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Going to take a few decades to hammer this out. I believe that over time, people there will come to see themselves as more European, and more accepting of central authority. Recall that this country was formed from Virginians and Pennsylvanians, and there was a very strong sense of states being soverign. It took time for the federal government to become supreme in power, and have it recognized as such.

Europe is hindered to some degree as there is no common language, but they have been dealing with this for a long long time, and I do not see it as insurmountable. I expect that within 50 years (a blink of an eye really), we will see something akin to the United States of Europe, with no internal border restrictions, and a common armed force directed by a central govt.

That is very true, although the situation in europe is harder. Before 1776, the states were colonies, not sovereign countries, so giving up power to a federa goverment wasn't as big of a sacrifice for them.

Similar problems existed then with states rights versus population.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Going to take a few decades to hammer this out. I believe that over time, people there will come to see themselves as more European, and more accepting of central authority. Recall that this country was formed from Virginians and Pennsylvanians, and there was a very strong sense of states being soverign. It took time for the federal government to become supreme in power, and have it recognized as such.

Europe is hindered to some degree as there is no common language, but they have been dealing with this for a long long time, and I do not see it as insurmountable. I expect that within 50 years (a blink of an eye really), we will see something akin to the United States of Europe, with no internal border restrictions, and a common armed force directed by a central govt.

That is very true, although the situation in europe is harder. Before 1776, the states were colonies, not sovereign countries, so giving up power to a federa goverment wasn't as big of a sacrifice for them.

Similar problems existed then with states rights versus population.

Obviously both cases have similarities and differences. The US solved it and now the europeans are trying to solve their problems, but that doesn't mean they have to copy the US system absolutely.

To be honest, I would never want something like your senate here in Canada. When we do get around to Senate reform, I would be firmly for its abolishment, rather than making it elected and equal. There's no way I'm gonna support a hick province of 130000 (PEI) having the same voice as a province of 11 million (Ontario).