Ethernet surge suppressors

[jd8180]

Living in Miami, FL we are very prone to lightning storms. Last week I just had a storm fry all the NICs, router, and a number of other things all at once. I was looking into ethernet surge suppressors to prevent this in the future. What's the most efficient way to install it?

Here's my situation: I have AT&T U-verse, so the gateway from that connects to my Linksys router. From the Linksys I have cables running to every other PC.

During a surge, where does the electricity enter from? Would I need suppressors for each individual PC? Or a suppressor for each port in the Linksys router? Or just one single suppressor from the gateway to the Linksys router?

 

[ScottMac]

It sounds like it came in through the phone line. The entrance protection in the NID (the grey box on the side of the house) should have caught most of the surge.

At the least, you'll want to call AT&T / U-Verse and have them come check the protector in the NID, it's probably shot at this point and should probably be replaced.

Each NIC "usually" has a gas-popper type protector too ... if it took out the NICs, you had a pretty substantial hit.

 

[jd8180]

Yeah, every port on the router is dead, the one port on the gateway that connected to the router doesn't work (I can still use the other ports fine, though), and the NICs on my brother's XBOX as well as another PC (both that were completely off during the storm) are also picking up nothing.

The insurance claims they're going to cover it all, but it's still such a massive headache and we keep finding new things that are broken.

Now that you mention about the phone lines, I realized that whenever we pick up the land line telephone, the dial tone stutters on and off like 5-6 times before we get a solid dial tone. I'm pretty confident in assuming that it's an issue caused by the strike.

 

[ScottMac]

The "flashing" dial tone usually indicates a message waiting in your unified messaging mailbox.

There are other (non-problem) reasons why it might be flashing.

It's probably still worth checking out, and the entrance protection is likely to be shot and need replacement.

 

[jd8180]

Ah, we just signed up for U-Verse, so they changed our phone service as well so you may be right. Anyway, enough thread hijacking! What is the correct way to install ethernet surge supressors?

 

[ScottMac]

They would go inline: Host plugs into it, it plugs into the port.
Make sure your grounds are good.

No magic at all. Make sure your cables are in spec.

Good Luck

 

[jd8180]

I am quite the noob when it comes to grounding. I saw some surge suppressors on newegg and it has a short wire coming out of it for grounding. Where exactly would you crimp that on to?

 

[skyking]

You need to bond with #10 wire at a minimum to a ground rod outside, metallic plumbing if it is continuous and is buried outside, or special adapter that you plug into an outlet that will safely hook you into the safety ground of your house's wiring.
I listed them in my order of preference. Too often the house wiring is not up to code.

 

[Eug]

Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but it seemed appropriate.

You need to bond with #10 wire at a minimum to a ground rod outside, metallic plumbing if it is continuous and is buried outside, or special adapter that you plug into an outlet that will safely hook you into the safety ground of your house's wiring.
I listed them in my order of preference. Too often the house wiring is not up to code.

I recently installed an 83 metre run of CAT6 outdoors from the end of my yard to my house. The CAT6 ends up inside a wooden gazebo, and terminates about 7 feet off the ground. I'm not convinced it's a high risk for a lightning strike as we're in the city and not in a high storm area and there are bazillion other structures and trees around, but nonetheless it's still a risk, so I'm looking at ethernet lightning protector options.

My house wiring is recent and was inspected so I know it's up to code. Most of the Ethernet grounding solutions I see online are of the third type you listed. Some little box with a small wire that connects to the electrical ground.

However, they seem to be items that would be mounted inside. Even if I could put it outside in a box or something I have no electrical outlet nearby the entry point of the ethernet cable. Plumbing isn't an option either, because there is no plumbing there. The construction is drywall and wood on metal studs. As for an external grounding rod, I'm not keen on doing that because there is cement there. I could go about 10 feet away but then that means pounding a 10 foot long rod into the ground just to ground one ethernet cable.

How bad are those indoor devices that ground to electrical ground? It's third on your list. If I have to use one of those, any specific recommendations as to brand and model?

BTW, while I am not feeding power via Ethernet yet, one of devices (an outdoor surveillance camera) is capable of PoE and I've been toying with the idea of using PoE, so I'd prefer to have a PoE-capable surge suppressor. As for speed, the line is CAT6, but I only need 100 Base T speeds so if the cost of a Gigabit-capable lightning strike protector is prohibitive, then a 100 Mbps-capable device is fine.

Also, I do have a couple of short runs of ethernet on the side of the house. However, these begin in the house, go outside for a short distance hugging the wall, and then go back inside. I haven't put surge protectors on those.

 

[cmetz]

Moderator, we seriously need a FAQ topic on running Ethernet cabling outside and/or between disconnected structures. The issue keeps coming up.

Eug,

>I recently installed an 83 metre run of CAT6 outdoors from the end of my yard to my house.

This is extremely dangerous.

 

[Eug]

^^^ Please share.

So, is this useless then?

APC ProtectNet standalone surge protector for 10/100/1000 Base-T Ethernet lines

Protects an Ethernet data port from damaging surges. Compatible with Power over Ethernet (PoE) and 10/100/1000 Base-T networks.

They're $25 locally. I was going to get several.

 

[imagoon]

Moderator, we seriously need a FAQ topic on running Ethernet cabling outside and/or between disconnected structures. The issue keeps coming up.

Eug,

>I recently installed an 83 metre run of CAT6 outdoors from the end of my yard to my house.

This is extremely dangerous.

I thought about adding it to the FAQ the problem is the local regulations vary quite a bit so best case I could list is "suggestions."

In the case of Eug's line... Odds are you would just protect it on the egress point of the house with an Ethernet suppressor. You would not want to ground in 2 places as you could induce current on the Ethernet cable.

My personal experience with outdoor is that you have to install all this stuff or your looking for trouble. The main thing isn't a direct strike, it is induced current. A strike even a 1/2 mile away can induce quite a bit of power in in-ground wire.

 

[imagoon]

^^^ Please share.

So, is this useless then?

APC ProtectNet standalone surge protector for 10/100/1000 Base-T Ethernet lines

Protects an Ethernet data port from damaging surges. Compatible with Power over Ethernet (PoE) and 10/100/1000 Base-T networks.

They're $25 locally. I was going to get several.

Just make sure they are well grounded and they should work. Also buy a couple because those are activate -> fail meaning they die saving your gear which is better than one that activate -> run because they let your gear explode the next time. Make sure it is as close to the egress as you can get it. Best place is outside in a NID box for that purpose.

 

[Texashiker]

Living in Miami, FL we are very prone to lightning storms. Last week I just had a storm fry all the NICs, router, and a number of other things all at once.

I am willing to bet that the phone line is not properly grounded outside.

Go to the phone box on the outside of the house. There should be a copper wire going from the phone box, to the ground rod.

Something like this: copper ground wire - copper acorn clamp - copper clad ground rod 1/2 - 5/8 inch in diameter and 8 feet long.

Sometimes contractors will drive a 1/4 inch inch ground rod 4 feet long, and put some kind of junk clamp on the top. If this is an older house, sometimes using the weedeater around the ground rod will knock the ground wire loose. Or the edge of the lawnmower will hit the ground wire and pull it loose from the rod.

 

[Eug]

Just make sure they are well grounded and they should work. Also buy a couple because those are activate -> fail meaning they die saving your gear which is better than one that activate -> run because they let your gear explode the next time. Make sure it is as close to the egress as you can get it. Best place is outside in a NID box for that purpose.

There is no plumbing near the egress site, unless you the copper piping for the air conditioner. I doubt that's properly grounded to anything, and I don't want to clamp the thin copper pipe anyway.

The house ground is connected to a very large diam water pipe at its entry point from outside. I believe the pipe is 1" (which is very big for the area but was put it to support the large in-ground sprinkler system).

I take this to mean the only easy option for grounding that APC unit is to wire it to the house ground via the electrical system - ie. attached to a metal electrical gang box.

As for not using multiple multiple devices, would it matter if they're all tied to the same ground? My path is as follows:

Home office --> switch 1 --> switch 2 --> switch 3 --> switch 4 --> egress to outside.
Also attached to switch 3 is a NAS.
Also attached to switch 2 are my home theatre components.

I was going to put that APC ethernet surge protector between switch 4 and the egress point. However, I had also considered adding one between switch 1 and switch 2.

Both would be grounded to the same house ground so theoretically they should be at the same potential, no?

BTW, in case you're wondering, the reason why there are so many switches is because I had to install Gigabit in the house after the fact. My layout essentially follows the layout of the house's and its nooks and crannies, with a switch in each room. (For my basement reno, I homerunned everything to a central point while the walls were down, but that's just for the basement.)

 

[Texashiker]

There is no plumbing near the egress site, unless you the copper piping for the air conditioner. I doubt that's properly grounded to anything, and I don't want to clamp the thin copper pipe anyway.

Do not ground to any thin pipes, never ground to a natural gas line, and only ground to pipes if they go directly into the soil. When I was working for a cable modem provider, we only grounded to pipes as a last resort. We usually went back out to the customers house and drove a real ground rod as soon as possible.

By "egress site", do you mean the entry point of the house? If so, just go to the local hardware store, buy a ground rod, and drive it where you want the ground.

 

[Eug]

Do not ground to any thin pipes, never ground to a natural gas line, and only ground to pipes if they go directly into the soil.

By "egress site", do you mean the entry point of the house? If so, just go to the local hardware store, buy a ground rod, and drive it where you want the ground.

Yes. Forgive me if my terminology isn't correct.

One problem there is that it's all cement there. However, if I went say 10 feet away, there is soil there. Would that cause a problem to have two grounding sources that are not tied into to each other? Mind you, the second ground you're recommending wouldn't be a ground for the electrical system, so if I understand things correctly that wouldn't be an issue.

Hmmmm... I wonder how hard it would to pound such a big rod 8 feet into the ground. Eug, a ladder, and a sledgehammer - I could see major issues here...

 

[Texashiker]

One problem there is that it's all cement there. However, if I went say 10 feet away, there is soil there. Would that cause a problem to have two grounding sources that are not tied into to each other?

You do what you have to do. If you need a ground rod there, drive it.

Hmmmm... I wonder how hard it would to pound such a big rod 8 feet into the ground. Eug, a ladder, and a sledgehammer - I could see major issues here...

Unless your area is rock, most of the time you can drive the ground rod about half by working it up and down. I have driven a lot of ground rods, and never needed a ladder. Just get the hole started, push the rod down, pull it up, push it down,,,,. If you need to, add some water to the hole and let it sit for a little while.

Here is the equation for the ground wire length.

The ground wire has to be less then 1/2 the distance to the first device in the house.

Lets say the wire goes from the entry point, up an inside wall, across the attic, down a wall and to the modem - for a total length of about 40 feet to the first device. This means your ground wire has to be less then 20 feet long.

If the ground wire has to be 10 feet long, there can be no device within 20 feet of the entry point. And that i not 20 feet in a straight line, that is 20 feet of wire.

~~~ EDIT ~~~

Leave 6 inches of the ground rod sticking above the soil.
When driving the ground rod with a hammer, the top of the rod will mushroom, so have a file on hand to remove the burs. Or, put the acorn clamp on before you drive the rod.
Use a copper acorn clamp instead of a pewter clamp.

 

[piasabird]

They make surge protectors with ethernet ground built in. I dont have that but I have my router plugged into a separate surge protector. I live around St. Louis, MO and I have one of those generators mounted on a pole in back of my house. Lightning struck it once. The mains are suppose to absorb the shock and get burned out. Dont know much about lightning arrestors, but they use to put them on incoming TV Lines. There may be device similar at an electornic store for incoming phone lines or cable TV Lines.

 

[cmetz]

There are two different treatments you can have of this outdoor structure, and each has its own set of problems. Local codes will probably determine which you must actually use.

If you treat the outdoor structure as a separate electrical system, it must have its own ground and panel. In that case, your LV Ethernet cable can potentially support the voltage difference between the two electrical system's grounds, which in the event of an electrical storm can become a huge voltage. So there's a potential life safety issue if you touch that cable, or even something downstream of it. Your entire Ethernet network could end up spreading a lot of charge. You need input protectors on both ends of the cable, MOVs properly grounded. Check your local codes, because this might simply be something you're not allowed to do at all.

If you treat the outdoor structure as an extension of the main structure's electrical system, you bring a ground wire to it. In this case, the "ground" of the structure's electrical system can become different than the potential of the actual soil around it, leading to shock hazards. The farther away the structure, the more potential you might expect to have, and the bigger the problem. I'm not sure how you deal with this. The entire scenario is probably not really compliant with electrical codes for any nontrivial structure (this is more how you'd deal with a lamp post or something like that). The good news is that, in theory, both ends of your Ethernet cable are connected to devices that are all part of the same electrical system, and as long as there's a fat enough feed to the outdoor structure and it's wired right, you should not have excessive potential differences except in cases like a direct lightning hit.

The moral of this story is that you need an electrician who understands your local electrical codes to figure this out for you. There are local code/legal issues at work, and there are life safety issues at work. That's a nice way of saying that you, or a member of your family, can be electrocuted, or suffer an otherwise nasty shock, if this is done wrong. So please, do this right.

As with most electrical safety things, done wrong will work fine.... until someone gets hurt.

 

[cmetz]

You need an electrician who understands your local electrical codes to figure this out for you. There are local code/legal issues at work, and there are life safety issues at work. That's a nice way of saying that you, or a member of your family, can be electrocuted, or suffer an otherwise nasty shock, if this is done wrong. So please, do this right.

As with most electrical safety things, done wrong will work fine.... until someone gets hurt.

I've gotten some nasty shocks myself from "low voltage" Ethernet cables that were installed in ways they shouldn't have been.

 

[Modelworks]

A note on grounding. Many areas do not allow water pipes for grounding sources anymore. There are too many variables now unlike when everything was galvanized or copper. The pipe might be plastic in the ground but metal above ground, mixing metals on piping with a current source causes erosion of the metal, people insert fittings in the lines that break the grounding, etc.

If you have soil that doesn't allow for driving a single ground rod you can drive multiple ground rods in the same area and couple them together. Never have more than one ground location on the home though. You don't want to ground the meter then have another ground on the cable lines, telephone, etc as that creates a ground loop. Ideally you want one ground wire coming off the meter, going to a ground rod and everything else getting ground off that same point.

Cable installers are notorious for installing ground blocks on the home but never connecting the ground wire. One easy check of a homes grounding is to use a meter. Set for 250VAC measure between ground and neutral on an outlet, should be as close to 0V as possible. Measure from hot to ground and should be 110-125VAC and hot to neutral should be 110-125VAC. On something like a cable connection touch one probe on the metal outside connector on the cable and the other probe on the ground screw of an outlet , should be close to 0vac.


For the curious here is the latest NEC code on water pipe grounding, basically you have to install a ground rod to supplement it, so why bother with the water pipe to start with . They made a ton of changes in the last code release and it isn't uncommon to find electricians not aware of them.

(D) Metal Underground Water Pipe. Where used as a
grounding electrode, metal underground water pipe shall
meet the requirements of 250.53(D)(1) and (D)(2).
(1) Continuity. Continuity of the grounding path or the
bonding connection to interior piping shall not rely on wa-
ter meters or filtering devices and similar equipment.
(2) Supplemental Electrode Required. A metal under-
ground water pipe shall be supplemented by an additional
electrode of a type specified in 250.52(A)(2) through
(A)(8). Where the supplemental electrode is a rod, pipe, or
plate type, it shall comply with 250.56. The supplemental
electrode shall be permitted to be bonded to the grounding
electrode conductor, the grounded service-entrance conduc-
tor, the nonflexible grounded service raceway, or any
grounded service enclosure.
Exception: The supplemental electrode shall be permitted
to be bonded to the interior metal water piping at any
convenient point as covered in 250.52(A)(1), Exception.

 

[Eug]

Dunno about Ontario (where I live), but other provinces in Canada do allow water pipe grounding alone, as long as it meets certain criteria. I meet those criteria (for total surface area), but I don't have the Ontario code book. I have a 1" metal water pipe buried well below grade, and for some distance.

As for the outside structure, it's a gazebo, and it already has electrician-installed grounded electrical to it. The electrical cable is either buried (in conduit), or else is at grade (also in conduit), all the way to the gazebo which is around 200 feet away. It's an extension off the main house's electrical:

House's main breaker panel (200A) --> Addition's sub-panel (125A) --> Gazebo (no panel).

The non-grounded IP deercam is hooked up to the electrical there (although it is capable of PoE). However, I have CAT6 running parallel to the electrical from the gazebo most of the way to the house. (Yeah, parallel to electrical is bad for networking, but that's the only route that makes any sense, and it seems to work fine at Gigabit speeds, and the camera is only around 15 Mbps max anyway I think.) I had it working OK with powerline Ethernet for low to moderate bitrates, but it wasn't very reliable for the higher bitrate feeds. (I record H.264, but for max browser compatibility I use another simultaneous feed as MPJEG, but powerline networking didn't do well with both running.)

P.S. Speaking of lightning, this is what the camera output looks like in IR mode at night, during a thunderstorm: Evil-eyed raccoon iz eatin ur lawn grubs

 

[imagoon]

You do what you have to do. If you need a ground rod there, drive it.

This typically is not code and can be considered dangerous. Structure should have either 1 ground point or multiple that are all grounded together (dedicated ground wire 'structure' doesn't count.)

NEC 250.50:

NEC 250.50 All grounding electrodes that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded to-gether to form the grounding electrode system.

NEC 250.50 Electrodes include a metal underground water pipe in direct contact with earth for 10 feet or more, a metal frame of a building or structure, a concrete encased electrode or a ground ring.

NEC 250.66 The size of the grounding electrode conductor shall be determined by the size of the service-entrance conductors, per the chart:

Equivalent Size of Service Entrance Conductor 	Size of Grounding Electrode Conductor
Copper		Aluminum			Copper
4 AWG		2				8*
1 AWG		2/0				6
2/0 or 3/0	4/0 or 250			4

There is a ton more but I don't feel like typing all of 250.50 out as it is rather long. The key thing about pipe grounding is that the ground point is actually the ground for the piping system and not technically a structure ground. They also forbid using the pipe itself as a multiple ground point for reasons stated above.

 

[Texashiker]

This typically is not code and can be considered dangerous. Structure should have either 1 ground point or multiple that are all grounded together (dedicated ground wire 'structure' doesn't count.)

Keep in mind that your local building code is probably different then mine. And, sometimes you do what you have to do.

I have seen people pour a cement slab over the main ground rod. Making it impossible for phone of cable tv to be grounded at the same location.

Power going into the house from one side, phone on the other side.

In a perfect world everything would be bounded/grounded at one central point. But we dont live in a perfect world do we.