Ethanol worse than oil

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: da loser

Originally posted by: Descartes
I agree with some other posters. Laughing at "greenies" is counterproductive here, when everyone outside of those vested in the advancement of ethanol's usage wants to find the right alternatives.

except greenies don't actively protest ethanol like they do oil.

getting the oil industry decentralized from our government is the single most important step in promoting alternative energy. Once (if) that happens, we can focus on more sound energy development policies.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Guys.. I've been saying this for two years. Search for "ethanol" and you'll see my posts. I AM A "GREENIE". It's the corn lobby that got ethanol where it is today... Don't blame us, unless you want to blame greenies for not speaking out against ethanol.

Switchgrass yields more energy than corn but it's not good either, because it will turn a lot of wild land into farmland. Biodiversity is more important than SLIGHTLY reducing CO2 emissions.


The UN said recently that food reserves are at the lowest they've been in a long time. And deforestation is increasing in the third world to make way for oil crops. I predicted this when no one seemed to realize it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12....html?_r=1&oref=slogin

http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0117-biofuels.html

http://www.climateark.org/aler...?id=indonesia_peatland

http://weblog.greenpeace.org/m...l_giant_ditches_d.html

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37035



This has been well known in Europe, but the issue has been hidden away from the public in America.

:thumbsup:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..too late. corn gas is the eco-theists holy water. you'll just have to ignore that article.

what is an eco-theist? Someone who depends on this planet for their very existence?

Count me in, I guess. wanna join the club?

Anyone with any sound understanding of alternative energy knows that ethanol is bunk. This BS has never been driven by sound environmental policy. This is, and has always been, pure corn lobby BS.

This measure failing would most accurately be attributed to successful "eco-theism."

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Unfortunately there's currently no efficient way to produce hydrogen, just because it's plentiful doesn't mean it's easily obtained.

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/20134/

There are lots of more examples.

Edit:
Forgot to add about hydrogen from aluminum.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18700750/

I had read about hydrogen from aluminum, but not using the titanium dioxide catalyst, thanks for posting those. Pretty cool stuff, would be nice if they mentioned efficiency of the processes, though. I suspect the solar process is not very efficient, but it's definitely promising.

 

[BudAshes]

Every time a thread on anything to do with the energy gets posted here the shear amount of idiocy that proceeds is astounding. I'm not sure a single thing that makes sense has been posted in this thread. Supplying the entire nation with corn based ethonal is insane, but so is is thinking that oil coming out of the ground will last forever. Conservation is the key. Unfortunately we waste like idiots until there is nothing left at which time we will all point our fingers at anyone but ourselves. There are no sides here people, just one little planet that we all have to share.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Every time a thread on anything to do with the energy gets posted here the shear amount of idiocy that proceeds is astounding. I'm not sure a single thing that makes sense has been posted in this thread. Supplying the entire nation with corn based ethonal is insane, but so is is thinking that oil coming out of the ground will last forever. Conservation is the key. Unfortunately we waste like idiots until there is nothing left at which time we will all point our fingers at anyone but ourselves. There are no sides here people, just one little planet that we all have to share.

And biofuel is causing biodiversity to be lost at an even faster rate that it would be otherwise.

 

[imported_Imp]

I remember a story about popcorn prices being jacked up cause of increased diversion of corn to fuel. All I can say is screw that. Bio-fuel might work when we run out of oil, but no way it's "green" or problem solving. Something's making the fertilizer and moving the farm/processing equipment.

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Every time a thread on anything to do with the energy gets posted here the shear amount of idiocy that proceeds is astounding. I'm not sure a single thing that makes sense has been posted in this thread. Supplying the entire nation with corn based ethonal is insane, but so is is thinking that oil coming out of the ground will last forever. Conservation is the key. Unfortunately we waste like idiots until there is nothing left at which time we will all point our fingers at anyone but ourselves. There are no sides here people, just one little planet that we all have to share.

And biofuel is causing biodiversity to be lost at an even faster rate that it would be otherwise.

No, our ever expanding population and energy needs are causing it. Saying biofuel is causing anything is fallacy. Biofuel can be used in ways that are amazing and usefull but it is obviously not a solution to a problem that can't be fixed(ie our ever growing need for luxury)

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: Imp
I remember a story about popcorn prices being jacked up cause of increased diversion of corn to fuel. All I can say is screw that. Bio-fuel might work when we run out of oil, but no way it's "green" or problem solving. Something's making the fertilizer and moving the farm/processing equipment.

But if we were to transition completely to a biofuel economy, farm equipment could be run with biofuels and electricity could be created by burning biofuels. It seems to me that it should be possible to reach a point where the whole system is self-sustaining. We'd need fossil fuel to get the process started, but from then on the sun could provide the necessary energy for us to maintain a surplus.

Of course some manufacturing uses crude as part of the process, not for energy (plastics, for example), but there are usually alternatives. I know there is work being done on substituting animal and vegetable oils for crude oil as the matrix in plastics.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: IGBT
..too late. corn gas is the eco-theists holy water. you'll just have to ignore that article.

what is an eco-theist? Someone who depends on this planet for their very existence?

Count me in, I guess. wanna join the club?

Anyone with any sound understanding of alternative energy knows that ethanol is bunk. This BS has never been driven by sound environmental policy. This is, and has always been, pure corn lobby BS.
This measure failing would most accurately be attributed to successful "eco-theism."

Great post. :thumbsup:

 

[soydios]

greenies aren't the ones pushing ethanol. politicians are pushing it.

 

[0roo0roo]

naw plenty are as well, bio diesel pushers.

 

[Throckmorton]

http://www.treehugger.com/file...een-basics-ethanol.php

 

[FrustratedUser]

marked