Ethanol is not "green"

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KELBOY

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2002
3,062
0
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Originally posted by: So

If we can get the same ROI (in terms of energy) that we get from oil then it's worth it. If no, then we should pursue nuclear power and electric cars. There'll be enough oil for airplanes for the foreseeable future.

ethenol is just corn liquor(from a still) %85 as efficient as gasoline and cannot be ran at %100 percent mix..
it cannot be stored for longer than a month or so, or it starts losing a great deal of it's energy...
2 reasons why it is mixed with regular unleaded gasoline....

My brother-in-law works at the local ADM plant here (biggest ethenol plant in Iowa) , he say it goes straight out on the rails once it's produced, the refineries get fresh ethenol, if it is older than a week or 2 they'll start refusing it...
it really creates a demand economy the way it is set up.. It has a very bad shelf-life, causes shortages when demand is high ...and bad product when it sits too long...

an option but a poor one...


 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
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Originally posted by: mugs
You mean just in this thread, right? Because he has in others. :laugh:

You know it's funny, I have a devoutly religious friend who referred to the global warming believers as "global warming religionists." I don't think he understood the irony of what he was saying.
Yes, just in this thread.

It was in a Deep Space Nine episode - a Vorta, Weyoun, was making fun of the Bajorans for believing that wormhole aliens were gods. A Cardassian, Damar, said, "What about the Founders? You think that they're gods." (The Founders are just shape-shifting aliens.)
The response: "That's different. The Founders are gods."

It's always just perfectly fine, as long as they're your beliefs.


The planet is warming.
Humans are unlocking and releasing millions upon millions of tons of carbon, which nature locked up millions of years ago.
Carbon dioxide does prevent infrared radiation from heading back out into space.

But is it enough to be the cause of the warming? That is the part that is debatable.
Will the warming exterminate humanity from existence? No. It won't. It will simply push us out of the happy, (somewhat) predictable climate we've come to know and love, and people tend to worry about the unknown. Maybe a warmer climate will be the best thing to ever happen to us. Or maybe it will be worse than predicted. Maybe it's better to not find out just yet.

In any case, you'll find extremists. On the one side, you'll find those who think conservation is utterly pointless, and they will sometimes consume simply for the purpose of being wasteful. On the other side are those who seem to believe that global warming will kill all life on Earth. Evidence of mass extinctions in the past showed that in some cases, over 90% of all life died out. It still keeps coming back. As long as something survives which is capable of reproducing, life won't go away.
Best way to kill off everything on Earth: wait 5 billion years until the sun goes into its red giant stage. That should completely sterilize the planet. Afterwards, it'll be put into deep freeze as the sun shrinks to a white dwarf. Who knows, maybe a few water bears will still survive in stasis somewhere.:)



Originally posted by: NeoV
I agree about nuclear power - but it does have a very powerful residual waste product that must be very carefully dealt with - can't ignore that, but I'm in favor of the technology being used much more than it currently is - doesn't help the whole car issue though
More electrical production + improved battery technology + an upgraded power grid to handle the drastic increase in demand = long range electric cars.
Breeder reactors would also cut down on the net amount of radioactive waste produce.
 

lokiju

Lifer
May 29, 2003
18,526
5
0
They have an article in this months Popular Mechanics about this.

Crazy about how it'd take all our farm land and the best case scenario is that we'd get a net usable energy gain of 14% and by some estimates it cost 14% more energy to make it than it produces.

How about we just focus on things like Fuel Cell and Bluetec Diesel with Hybrid technology?
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
Originally posted by: lokiju
They have an article in this months Popular Mechanics about this.

Crazy about how it'd take all our farm land and the best case scenario is that we'd get a net usable energy gain of 14% and by some estimates it cost 14% more energy to make it than it produces.

How about we just focus on things like Fuel Cell and Bluetec Diesel with Hybrid technology?
Is that for corn-based ethanol?
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,976
141
106
Originally posted by: lokiju
They have an article in this months Popular Mechanics about this.

Crazy about how it'd take all our farm land and the best case scenario is that we'd get a net usable energy gain of 14% and by some estimates it cost 14% more energy to make it than it produces.

How about we just focus on things like Fuel Cell and Bluetec Diesel with Hybrid technology?

..just one of many examples how the carbon con ignores the obvious and embraces dubious intentions. Just don't forget. It's a CONfidence game supported by willing accomplices invested in the business end of punitive tax and trading scams.

 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: IGBT
Originally posted by: lokiju
They have an article in this months Popular Mechanics about this.

Crazy about how it'd take all our farm land and the best case scenario is that we'd get a net usable energy gain of 14% and by some estimates it cost 14% more energy to make it than it produces.

How about we just focus on things like Fuel Cell and Bluetec Diesel with Hybrid technology?

..just one of many examples how the carbon con ignores the obvious and embraces dubious intentions. Just don't forget. It's a CONfidence game supported by willing accomplices invested in the business end of punitive tax and trading scams.

I think we've found dmccowen's Republican counterpart...