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ETA on Haswell?

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Sylosis said:
Got a source for that?

To me it seems that Intel is pushing the programmable TDP feature so that vendors can fine tune it according to their needs. A nominal 35W quad core with a 25W underclocked mode doesn't seem far fetched to me.
Click to expand...

I think its quite clear their biggest push is in Ultrabooks, where they indicated all future design will be based on 10-18W power envelope.

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/4345/LaptopTarget_575px.jpg

The 17W dual core chips not only have a cTDPdown to 14W, but cTDPup to 25W. Offering a quad core chip in the 25W power envelope means it'll conflict with 25W mode for the dual core parts. And that's one issue. Knowingly cannibalizing your new #1 product is stupid. And they know this, since the Ultrabook-bound parts have the best power management and integration: http://www.theinquirer.net/IMG/609/201609/intel-haswell-chip-varients-540x334.jpg?1320927937

And its true that going from 35W to 25W has no real benefit, going from 17W to 14W does. And let me explain.

While it keeps the Turbo clocks the same, running on cTDPdown brings base frequency down to LFM's 800MHz frequency. So in 14W mode, any frequency above Turbo merely becomes a feature for responsiveness, rather than for any sustained performance boost. I believe the reasoning is for convertibles that you are likely to do more demanding productivity work in Notebook mode and light demand consumption work in Tablet mode.

The whole point is that Ultrabooks are in the size range where lowering power by mere few watts would enable a totally new form factor like a Tablet(or a convertible in an acceptable size), while neither 25W or 35W allows that. Of course you have vendors like Asus making 21-inch Tablets, but it doesn't mean it makes sense.

Take for example the upcoming Ultrabooks like the NEC LaVie Z that weights only 875 grams, and Acer Aspire S7 that's 12mm2 thick. I betcha even with 17W chips they are at boundaries.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/03/necs-lavie-z-ultrabook-japan/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5889/acers-full-hd-touch-enabled-windows-8-aspire-s7-ultrabooks
 
Last edited:
AtenRa said:
People jumping to the "dead" bandwagon very easily lately. There will always be a need for a desktop PC. Gamers, power users, workstations etc.
Click to expand...

Nope.

The post above you is on the money. If you can have a laptop with "ok" graphics (whether that means Haswells 4k or a dedicated GPU will depend on the person) with the ability to hook up a much larger device on an external connector of some sort.... that's the death of desktops setup.

Laptop CPU's are very capable, a decent i7 Ivy Bridge mobile chip will keep up with 2600K. Not stellar but, seriously, who at the moment honestly needs more for daily use?

The top end mobile graphics cards (7970M/680M) are about on par with a 570GTX/580GTX again, not VERY top end but a HUGE amount better than what most people use.

While you may be used to peers who all run with high end GPU's most folks... don't.

Now take a laptop with that amount of power already (so we are talking £1k for a LAPTOP that equals an I7 2600k/570GTX that's screen, drives, cables, keyboard, charger, battery, etc etc) and add Haswell.

Haswell brings thunderbolt support into the chipset. It won't be external silicon. It's the difference between series 6 and series 7 USB3/Sata 3 support. I.e... quite a big improvement. With thunderbolt on a laptop you have the full PCIe bus of a desktop via a cable you just pop in the side. PCIe 3.0 over thunderbolt will give the bandwidth for even a DESKTOP 680M. So you now have an I7 2600K+570GTX you can take with you that becomes an I7 2600K+680GTX when you want to sit at a desk with it.

There's no way straight boring tower boxes will completely survive that. Most folks now who care about gaming will switch to laptops. The folks that care about benchmarks will stick with desktops.

That's almost certainly where the market will eventually go.
 
Until they figure out how to cram in 5GHz of SB-equivalent computing power and 32GB RAM into a laptop, I'll keep my workstation thank you very much 😉
 
mercutiouk said:
Nope.

The post above you is on the money. If you can have a laptop with "ok" graphics (whether that means Haswells 4k or a dedicated GPU will depend on the person) with the ability to hook up a much larger device on an external connector of some sort.... that's the death of desktops setup.

Laptop CPU's are very capable, a decent i7 Ivy Bridge mobile chip will keep up with 2600K. Not stellar but, seriously, who at the moment honestly needs more for daily use?

The top end mobile graphics cards (7970M/680M) are about on par with a 570GTX/580GTX again, not VERY top end but a HUGE amount better than what most people use.

While you may be used to peers who all run with high end GPU's most folks... don't.

Now take a laptop with that amount of power already (so we are talking £1k for a LAPTOP that equals an I7 2600k/570GTX that's screen, drives, cables, keyboard, charger, battery, etc etc) and add Haswell.

Haswell brings thunderbolt support into the chipset. It won't be external silicon. It's the difference between series 6 and series 7 USB3/Sata 3 support. I.e... quite a big improvement. With thunderbolt on a laptop you have the full PCIe bus of a desktop via a cable you just pop in the side. PCIe 3.0 over thunderbolt will give the bandwidth for even a DESKTOP 680M. So you now have an I7 2600K+570GTX you can take with you that becomes an I7 2600K+680GTX when you want to sit at a desk with it.

There's no way straight boring tower boxes will completely survive that. Most folks now who care about gaming will switch to laptops. The folks that care about benchmarks will stick with desktops.

That's almost certainly where the market will eventually go.
Click to expand...

Not only upgradeablity sucks, gaming laptops are notoriously bad offenders when it comes to cooling, noise, keyboards, LCD quality and durability/build issues. Gaming desktops are here to stay, only smaller.
 
I say Haswell comes out near May. Q2

It wont be a year from now. MS even said Haswell is first half of 2013.

I dont know what the ivy bridge E is for when Haswells are coming out.
 
mercutiouk said:
Nope.

The post above you is on the money. If you can have a laptop with "ok" graphics (whether that means Haswells 4k or a dedicated GPU will depend on the person) with the ability to hook up a much larger device on an external connector of some sort.... that's the death of desktops setup.

Laptop CPU's are very capable, a decent i7 Ivy Bridge mobile chip will keep up with 2600K. Not stellar but, seriously, who at the moment honestly needs more for daily use?

The top end mobile graphics cards (7970M/680M) are about on par with a 570GTX/580GTX again, not VERY top end but a HUGE amount better than what most people use.

While you may be used to peers who all run with high end GPU's most folks... don't.

Now take a laptop with that amount of power already (so we are talking £1k for a LAPTOP that equals an I7 2600k/570GTX that's screen, drives, cables, keyboard, charger, battery, etc etc) and add Haswell.

Haswell brings thunderbolt support into the chipset. It won't be external silicon. It's the difference between series 6 and series 7 USB3/Sata 3 support. I.e... quite a big improvement. With thunderbolt on a laptop you have the full PCIe bus of a desktop via a cable you just pop in the side. PCIe 3.0 over thunderbolt will give the bandwidth for even a DESKTOP 680M. So you now have an I7 2600K+570GTX you can take with you that becomes an I7 2600K+680GTX when you want to sit at a desk with it.

There's no way straight boring tower boxes will completely survive that. Most folks now who care about gaming will switch to laptops. The folks that care about benchmarks will stick with desktops.

That's almost certainly where the market will eventually go.
Click to expand...
wow a 400-600 watt desk top will = a haswell lap @ 25 watts at the same res. same fps ,same game ,just wow I didn't know .
I guess all that reverse engineering paid off at area 51.
 
The high end quad core mobiles come first, then the desktop, little bit after that the Ultrabook parts, and finally the dual core mobiles(and desktops?).

Whether its coming out starting from March or May depends on the news source you read. 🙂

Ivy Bridge EP will be another big step forward for Xeon E5, the enthusiast "E" chips will probably be another "meh" compared to regular Haswell. I bet the majority of enthusiasts consist of playing games, which don't care about the extra L3 cache, cores, memory bandwidth, and I/O.

Even the 3960X is faster than 2600K for most applications only because of the higher clocks, nothing else.
 
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