eSata vs Firewire external Harddrive

[Havok83]

BestBuy currently has the eSATA version of their 500gb MyBook on sale and I was wondering if it was worth picking up over the version with just the firewire and USB 2.0 I'd of course have to get a card for my PC to support it, but is the speed really noticeable between firewire and eSATA?

 

[secretanchitman]

yes. esata is MUCH faster than firewire and usb2.0. but if your comp doesnt have it and the add-in esata card is too expensive, then dont bother getting it. firewire/usb 2.0, is good enough.

 

[Paperdoc]

I read some comparisons based on real-world copies of lots of files, etc. They were testing speeds of the interface systems for external drives. Firewire 400 (aka IEEE 1394a) and eSATA are almost the same speed, slight advantage to eSATA. Firewire 800 (aka IEEE 1394b) is definitely faster, but few computers have that interface. USB2 is slower than those three.

Does the unit you're looking at have BOTH eSATA and USB2? Mine does, and I wanted the backward compatibility in case I need to hook up to someone else's system. My mobo had the eSATA controller and port included. If you would have to buy an eSATA controller, you'll have to decide whether it is worth the extra money for a small performance improvement. I'm assuming the simpler option is the Firewire 400 (IEEE 1394a) and USB2 unit because you already have the Firewire port for free.

 

[Zepper]

Yes it would be good to have both eSATA and USB 2. But if you don't intend to hook your drive to any other machine, then I'd go with eSATA. There is a review around the web somewhere of the Vantec PCI eSATA card and I thought it whipped FW by a wide margin - maybe that was only in read. If you have PCI Express slots, you could run eSATA 2. Yeah, that's the ticket... A single port eSATA PCI card is $25. or less.

.b.h.

 

[Havok83]

Yes the model does have eSATA and USB 2.0. I have the firewire one and it runs god but Im still undecided on whether I should return it and get the eSATA edition

 

[Blain]

If you will be using the external drive only on PC's that have an eSATA port... :thumbsup:
If you will use the external drive on PC's that don't have an eSATA port... :thumbsdown:
Firewire & USB 2.0 are widely supported.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: Blain
If you will be using the external drive only on PC's that have an eSATA port... :thumbsup:
If you will use the external drive on PC's that don't have an eSATA port... :thumbsdown:
Firewire & USB 2.0 are widely supported.

And that is why the Vantec Nex-Star 3, with eSATA and USB 2 is so useful. You have speed plus portability.

eSATA+USB2

 

[Zepper]

USB 2 is widely supported but it's hard to find FW except on notebook computers and Apple.

.bh.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
I read some comparisons based on real-world copies of lots of files, etc. They were testing speeds of the interface systems for external drives. Firewire 400 (aka IEEE 1394a) and eSATA are almost the same speed, slight advantage to eSATA. Firewire 800 (aka IEEE 1394b) is definitely faster, but few computers have that interface. USB2 is slower than those three.

Does the unit you're looking at have BOTH eSATA and USB2? Mine does, and I wanted the backward compatibility in case I need to hook up to someone else's system. My mobo had the eSATA controller and port included. If you would have to buy an eSATA controller, you'll have to decide whether it is worth the extra money for a small performance improvement. I'm assuming the simpler option is the Firewire 400 (IEEE 1394a) and USB2 unit because you already have the Firewire port for free.

Did i just see you say IEEE1394b is faster than eSATA & IEEE1394a is about the same?

You're gonna have to provide me with some damn good links to back that up, since that makes absolutely zero sense.

OP, get the eSATA if you plan on building a new PC someday soon that has eSATA (pretty much all new good mobos).

 

[gramboh]

Originally posted by: n7

Did i just see you say IEEE1394b is faster than eSATA & IEEE1394a is about the same?

You're gonna have to provide me with some damn good links to back that up, since that makes absolutely zero sense.

OP, get the eSATA if you plan on building a new PC someday soon that has eSATA (pretty much all new good mobos).

I'm with you on this. Considering eSATA is just an SATA link with a different cable, and no overhead/interface exchange, how could FW800 possibly be faster? The eSATA link shoudl be able to saturate the drive's read/write speeds. From what I've read there is no overhead with using eSATA whereas there is with USB2 and FW.

Thanks

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: Zepper
USB 2 is widely supported but it's hard to find FW except on notebook computers and Apple.

I have had 2 FW ports on my Asus p4Pe and later. And, Adaptec Fireconnect cards are fairly common and easy to install. I don't consider it hard to find. ???

 

[Paperdoc]

Reply to n7 and gramboh: here is my post from some time back, contains links to two test reports. And I see I did mix it up: the FW400 is closer to USB2, and eSATA comes between these and FW800. And gramboh, the data say you are right, there is no difference betwen internal SATA and external eSATA data transfer speeds.

Sorry, it appears I mentally mashed two or more items together here. But these links will provide the answers. For reference, design maximum data transfer speeds are claimed to be:
USB2: 480 Mb/s = 60 MB/s by my calcs
Firewire 400: 400 Mb/s = 50 MB/s
Firewire 800: 800 Mb/s = 100 MB/s
eSATA / SATAII: 300 MB/s

IcyDock MB559US-1S External Enclosure Performance Review
The enclosure has USB2 and eSATA ports. Measured data transfer rate USB2 was 32 MB/s Read, 27 MB/s Write. Measured on eSATA ranged from 61 down to 31 MB/s (read and write the same), depending on how full the disk was.

Seagate ST3500601XS-RK External HD Performance Review
Contains benchmark data showing these trends in actual data transfer rates:
Firewire 800: Read 75 MB/s, Write 55 MB/s
Seagate eSATA: Read 49 MB/s, Write 48 MB/s
Seagate Internal: Read 48 MB/s, Write 48 MB/s (same drive, but direct internal connected)
Firewire 400: Read 38 MB/s, Write 30 MB/s
USB2: Read 31 MB/s, Write 25 MB/s

So I mis-spoke, if you will. Firewire 400 (that is, IEEE 1394a) IS a bit faster than USB2 despite the design max. In fact, both only deliver about half their max ratings - not surprising. Firewire 800 (IEEE 1394b) actually does deliver almost double the performance of the basic Firewire 400. And eSATA, despite its design max, falls in between the two versions of Firewire, but certainly well ahead of Firewire 400 (IEEE 1394a).

By the way, many people have claimed that, although SATAII drives can work up to 300 MB/s, very few current mobo's and controllers are up to this, and most will deliver performance only up to the original SATA speeds max of 150 MB/s. Until, of course, better controllers are implemented widely. Now, consider that the IcyDock review disclosed that the max actual measured data transfer rate (read and write the same) started out at 61 MB/s for an empty drive, then declined smoothly to 31 MB/s on the full drive. AVERAGE for the Seagate eSATA unit was 48 MB/s. Not too far off the Firewire 800 systems which claim 100 MB/s and deliver 75 (read) and 55 (write).

In some reviews and comments people will say, "Oh well, it may be slightly slower but nobody would actually use an external drive to run from, so it does not matter." Note that, in the Seagate external review, there was NO difference in data transfer performance for the same drive connected either via eSATA or via the "normal" internal direct connection. Impressive for eSATA, no?

 

[erwos]

eSATA is faster than FW400, because the former can take better advantage of cache bursts than the latter. That, and because most FW400 controllers can't actually hit that magical 400mbit/s bandwidth number.

 

[Twsmit]

I just bought a USB2.0/eSATA external enclosure and it came with a eSATA ---> SATA pass through bracket. Works like a charm, and provides full SATA speeds. I would highly recommend a eSATA and USB combo drive. Firewire is nice but not as fast as eSATA and not as widespread. USB is universal and will provide compatibility for any computer you connect to.

 

[Paperdoc]

One small thing to watch for in this. My external enclosure also came with a bracket / connector to allow you to hook an eSATA external enclosure through to a normal internal SATA connector. If you do not have or install a real eSATA controller, these will work for many things. I had an eSATA controller and connector on the mobo so I skipped the adapter plate.

But here are the possible gotcha's. eSATA controllers virtually ALL include support for two important parts of eSATA: hot swapping, and longer data cable length (and maybe a few others I'm not sure of). However, whether or not these are included in an internal SATA controller is at the option of the controller maker, and many do not. So, for example, you may see reports that someone is using the adapter and it all works, except that hot swapping does not. And others may report they have seen no problems at all.

 

[Zepper]

Hey Corky,

Out in the real world, very few buy top edition Asus mobos...

.bh.

 

[RebateMonger]

Anybody know if there are Vista drivers for Firewire 800 controllers?

 

[gramboh]

This is interesting, I don't understand how an SATA drive is faster using FW800 than eSATA. Assuming the enclosure is just a pass through SATA and doesn't have any other interface (it doesn't as one of the above reviews shows the same speed internally and externally).

The drive is limited by it's physical capabilities (e.g. will never saturate SATA/SATA2 on its own) so it should be achieving 'max' perfroamance within the SATA/eSATA interface. I see the numbers in that THG review but I don't understand how it's theoretically possible for that to happen. The numbers also look high for a 7200RPM drive.

 

[Zepper]

One would think that FW drivers for the major chips would be included in Vista - if not, then that's just another good reason not to bother with it.

.bh.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Zepper
One would think that FW drivers for the major chips would be included in Vista - if not, then that's just another good reason not to bother with it.

There was a BIG problem with FW800 drivers in XP/Server 2003. MS decided that the FW800 specification was too vague and issued XP drivers that limited XP SP2 FW800 communications to 100Mb/sec. And it was impossible to find Server 2003 drivers for FW800.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: Twsmit
I just bought a USB2.0/eSATA external enclosure and it came with a eSATA ---> SATA pass through bracket. Works like a charm, and provides full SATA speeds. I would highly recommend a eSATA and USB combo drive. Firewire is nice but not as fast as eSATA and not as widespread. USB is universal and will provide compatibility for any computer you connect to.

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
One small thing to watch for in this. My external enclosure also came with a bracket / connector to allow you to hook an eSATA external enclosure through to a normal internal SATA connector. If you do not have or install a real eSATA controller, these will work for many things. I had an eSATA controller and connector on the mobo so I skipped the adapter plate.

Which enclosures did you guys go with? I looked at the Vantec that corkyg recommended, but there are quite a few out there and it wouldn't hurt to hear some more opinions. I definitely want something that's well-built, like my women , and will do a good job of keeping my drive(s) cool while in use. eSATA is a must, though USB and/or Firewire options would be nice in case I need to use it with a system other than my own. Thanks!

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
Seagate ST3500601XS-RK External HD Performance Review
Contains benchmark data showing these trends in actual data transfer rates:
Firewire 800: Read 75 MB/s, Write 55 MB/s
Seagate eSATA: Read 49 MB/s, Write 48 MB/s
Seagate Internal: Read 48 MB/s, Write 48 MB/s (same drive, but direct internal connected)
Firewire 400: Read 38 MB/s, Write 30 MB/s
USB2: Read 31 MB/s, Write 25 MB/s

So I mis-spoke, if you will. Firewire 400 (that is, IEEE 1394a) IS a bit faster than USB2 despite the design max. In fact, both only deliver about half their max ratings - not surprising. Firewire 800 (IEEE 1394b) actually does deliver almost double the performance of the basic Firewire 400. And eSATA, despite its design max, falls in between the two versions of Firewire, but certainly well ahead of Firewire 400 (IEEE 1394a).

By the way, many people have claimed that, although SATAII drives can work up to 300 MB/s, very few current mobo's and controllers are up to this, and most will deliver performance only up to the original SATA speeds max of 150 MB/s. Until, of course, better controllers are implemented widely. Now, consider that the IcyDock review disclosed that the max actual measured data transfer rate (read and write the same) started out at 61 MB/s for an empty drive, then declined smoothly to 31 MB/s on the full drive. AVERAGE for the Seagate eSATA unit was 48 MB/s. Not too far off the Firewire 800 systems which claim 100 MB/s and deliver 75 (read) and 55 (write).

In some reviews and comments people will say, "Oh well, it may be slightly slower but nobody would actually use an external drive to run from, so it does not matter." Note that, in the Seagate external review, there was NO difference in data transfer performance for the same drive connected either via eSATA or via the "normal" internal direct connection. Impressive for eSATA, no?

This is an interpretation of the THG article, which is fine for what it is, but is quite misleading overall. The THG article is NOT a fair apples and apples comparison of interfaces. They use different drives, and even RAID 0 or something like that in some cases. Hence the obviously incorrect conclusion that 1394b is faster than eSATA and even directly attached SATA. Their article may be valid for comparing specific implementations, using whatever testing methods they used (did they even document them?), but they do not generalize to rules about interfaces.

Use your heads folks; don't get confused by reports like this.

HDs are the real bottlenecks at the high end, and the top out around 80 MB/s at best for conventional drives. More typically somewhere around 65 MB/s. The average of course will be quite a bit less as you go across the drive. So for the time being, we can say that the different interfaces, when implemented well, will give roughly the same performance on average. All this changes when the HDs are teamed together in a RAID configuration to give much higher max performance, and as HDs themselves improve in performance, as they do, continually. 100 MB/s is expected in consumer drives by around summer time. eSATA is going to be the mid-term to long-term winner, esp. when implemented well.

 

[Paperdoc]

I bought an AZIO model ENC311SU41 from Newegg. It has eSATA and USB2 interfaces, an external power brick of its own, 2-piece aluminum case with no fan, and accepts 3½" SATA II drives. I put into it a Seagate 500GB SATA II to use as my backup system. I will clone my C: drive to the first partition on the external unit. My mobo will allow me to boot from the eSATA unit, I believe. So, if it all works as planned, this thing won't just be a backup copy. It will actually allow me to boot and run from it. That should make diagnosis and restoration easier if I have to.

 

[GeezerMan]

I saw the AZIO model ENC311SU41 and the KINGWIN JT-35E-BK e-Sata enclosure on Newegg. I like the features of the Kingwin better, it has a fan, but you have to buy a separate e-Sata PCI card, so you have to spend another 20.00. Anyone have experience with the Kingwin?

 

[John]

I have the AZiO ENC311SU31 and I've been thoroughly pleased with it. The lack of a fan and the included eSATA hanger were important to me. The WD 3200KS I put inside runs extremely quiet, and the enclosure seems to dissipate the heat well even though the HDD runs cool as it is. Fit and finish are excellent, and the vertical stand is a nice touch.