Eric Holder pulls the Race Card

[DucatiMonster696]

There is plenty of evidence he knew about the gun running operations.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20115038-10391695.html

And there is plenty of evidence (via emails) that the operation "Fast and Furious" was being leveraged for political purposes to push a anti-2nd amendment agenda and getting additional long gun regulation passed via the ATF.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_1...furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

 

[woolfe9999]

It certainly sounded unreasonable to me, as he is directly implying that if he were not black, at least some of his critics would not be his critics, if only because he is somehow closer to Obama than those appointees who do not share the President's approximate level of melanin. That's plenty sad.

That said, I do feel a certain amount of empathy for Holder, as it's not at all apparent that he directed this abortion of a program or even knew about it until it blew up. I'm not even absolutely certain his lies to Congress were intentional - although at best that means he's not reading or comprehending important interdepartmental emails, which would be a breach of duty.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. As with any time one attempts to speculate about the motives of another, it may or may not be correct. All he was saying 1) that one way to attack a POTUS is to attack others in his administration, 2) the best targets are those who are perceived as having the closest connection to the POTUS, 3) if you're going to pick someone to dump on because you want it to rub off on Obama, you don't pick the white female Secretary of State who is a past political rival of Obama, for example; Instead, you pick the black male AG who is a long time friend of Obama.

The most significance that can be drawn by his reference to race here is exactly this: that a few of Obama's political rivals believe that some voters may associate two people because both are black, and they accordingly choose their target in part for that reason. It certainly isn't impossible that a few critics are taking that into consideration as one factor.

What is "playing the race" anyway? Who gets to decide how we define that? I think some definitional clarity is in order, since the right has made this a scattershot allegation that seems to apply where any liberal or democrat even so much as breaths a word about race or ethnicity. I think it's best to get some coherent idea of what it means, because an overused allegation like that eventually becomes meaningless. Indeed, it becomes exactly parallel to those who spam the charge of racism across the board until the concept no longer has any meaning.

 

[peonyu]

It certainly sounded unreasonable to me, as he is directly implying that if he were not black, at least some of his critics would not be his critics, if only because he is somehow closer to Obama than those appointees who do not share the President's approximate level of melanin. That's plenty sad.

That said, I do feel a certain amount of empathy for Holder, as it's not at all apparent that he directed this abortion of a program or even knew about it until it blew up. I'm not even absolutely certain his lies to Congress were intentional - although at best that means he's not reading or comprehending important interdepartmental emails, which would be a breach of duty.

Devil's advocate- If Holder were White, would he have some blacks criticising him, instead of supporting him like they do now ??

You betcha.

The race angle he is bringing into this is pointless. Sure the KKK will be critical of him. But a Black Panther/Malcolm-X follower would be critical of him to if he were white, and not overlook some of his flaws due to being black. And if he was a Asian then guess what ???? Asians would support him more than usual, etc etc etc same if he Latino etc.

The race angle.is.complete.bullshit.

 

[Fern]

IMO, bringing up the "you know, the fact that we’re both African-American” was unnecessary and another example of poor judgement.

Yeah, he played the race card, otherwise no reason to even bring that up.

Fern

 

[peonyu]

IMO, bringing up the "you know, the fact that we’re both African-American” was unnecessary and another example of poor judgement.

Yeah, he played the race card, otherwise no reason to even bring that up.

Fern

In other words, wahhhh, were both targeted for being black. Yet he leaves out how 98%+ of african-americans will vote for Obama even if it meant the world would end in 2012. He ignores 1 group being biased in his favor but is more than willing to call attention to negative bias that he believes is happening from the "other" group [white people].

 

[waggy]

There is plenty of evidence he knew about the gun running operations.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20115038-10391695.html

And there is plenty of evidence (via emails) that the operation "Fast and Furious" was being leveraged for political purposes to push a anti-2nd amendment agenda and getting additional long gun regulation passed via the ATF.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_1...furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

it still blows my mind that anyone gave this program a green light. I just don't get it.

 

[woolfe9999]

IMO, bringing up the "you know, the fact that we’re both African-American” was unnecessary and another example of poor judgement.

Yeah, he played the race card, otherwise no reason to even bring that up.

Fern

This is exactly what I mean. Mentioning race is "playing the race card." You guys have to do better than that.

 

[werepossum]

There is plenty of evidence he knew about the gun running operations.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20115038-10391695.html

And there is plenty of evidence (via emails) that the operation "Fast and Furious" was being leveraged for political purposes to push a anti-2nd amendment agenda and getting additional long gun regulation passed via the ATF.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_1...furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

Yes, I agree that Holder knew about the program before he claimed to have found out via the news, I was just saying that I haven't seen any evidence that he knew about it from its start, or that he originated it. Either he intentionally lied to Congress, or he unintentionally lied to Congress because things that weren't political priorities he leaves to career employees.

I totally agree that F&F was a purely politically motivated program designed to attack our Second Amendment rights. My point there was that this doesn't in and of itself implicate Obama or even Holder, because BATFE did similar things under Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan and Carter, and perhaps earlier. BATFE is IMO an activist, anti-American, evil totalitarian agency at its top level. I have no doubt that they are emboldened when an anti-Second Amendment administration is in power, but that's not necessarily the same as Holder and/or Obama being behind this program. And while I wouldn't be shocked to find either Holder or Holder and Obama behind this program, if I had to guess I'd say it's the BATFE up to its usual misbehavior, so I give Holder and Obama the benefit of the doubt here unless and until proven otherwise.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. As with any time one attempts to speculate about the motives of another, it may or may not be correct. All he was saying 1) that one way to attack a POTUS is to attack others in his administration, 2) the best targets are those who are perceived as having the closest connection to the POTUS, 3) if you're going to pick someone to dump on because you want it to rub off on Obama, you don't pick the white female Secretary of State who is a past political rival of Obama, for example; Instead, you pick the black male AG who is a long time friend of Obama.

The most significance that can be drawn by his reference to race here is exactly this: that a few of Obama's political rivals believe that some voters may associate two people because both are black, and they accordingly choose their target in part for that reason. It certainly isn't impossible that a few critics are taking that into consideration as one factor.

What is "playing the race" anyway? Who gets to decide how we define that? I think some definitional clarity is in order, since the right has made this a scattershot allegation that seems to apply where any liberal or democrat even so much as breaths a word about race or ethnicity. I think it's best to get some coherent idea of what it means, because an overused allegation like that eventually becomes meaningless. Indeed, it becomes exactly parallel to those who spam the charge of racism across the board until the concept no longer has any meaning.

But the converse of that argument is that were Holder white, at least some of his critics would not be criticizing him, otherwise his race is not a factor at all. Do you honestly believe that anyone now criticizing Holder for Fast and Furious would give him a pass if he had lighter skin? I find that concept ridiculous. I'd say it is more likely that Holder being black would make his critics LESS likely to attack him, since if he were white he'd have one less possible defense against the accusations.

As far as playing the "race card", I'd define it as an attempt to deflect or avoid criticism by claiming that it is at least in part racially motivated. Herman Cain for instance is dead on that he was attacked because his leading the Republican nomination race removed one of the Democrats' most effective attacks, that Republicans are racist white men. However, he was making this claim to mitigate the damage taken from his own behavior by claiming he was targeted because of his race; he was playing the race card. Similarly, Holder is playing the race card, attempting to get a pass by alleging racial motives.

LOL at myself for defending Holder and attacking Holder in the same post, but I gotta call 'em as I see 'em.

 

[werepossum]

Devil's advocate- If Holder were White, would he have some blacks criticising him, instead of supporting him like they do now ??

You betcha.

The race angle he is bringing into this is pointless. Sure the KKK will be critical of him. But a Black Panther/Malcolm-X follower would be critical of him to if he were white, and not overlook some of his flaws due to being black. And if he was a Asian then guess what ???? Asians would support him more than usual, etc etc etc same if he Latino etc.

The race angle.is.complete.bullshit.

Agreed.

 

[woolfe9999]

Yes, I agree that Holder knew about the program before he claimed to have found out via the news, I was just saying that I haven't seen any evidence that he knew about it from its start, or that he originated it. Either he intentionally lied to Congress, or he unintentionally lied to Congress because things that weren't political priorities he leaves to career employees.

I totally agree that F&F was a purely politically motivated program designed to attack our Second Amendment rights. My point there was that this doesn't in and of itself implicate Obama or even Holder, because BATFE did similar things under Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan and Carter, and perhaps earlier. BATFE is IMO an activist, anti-American, evil totalitarian agency at its top level. I have no doubt that they are emboldened when an anti-Second Amendment administration is in power, but that's not necessarily the same as Holder and/or Obama being behind this program. And while I wouldn't be shocked to find either Holder or Holder and Obama behind this program, if I had to guess I'd say it's the BATFE up to its usual misbehavior, so I give Holder and Obama the benefit of the doubt here unless and until proven otherwise.


But the converse of that argument is that were Holder white, at least some of his critics would not be criticizing him, otherwise his race is not a factor at all. Do you honestly believe that anyone now criticizing Holder for Fast and Furious would give him a pass if he had lighter skin? I find that concept ridiculous. I'd say it is more likely that Holder being black would make his critics LESS likely to attack him, since if he were white he'd have one less possible defense against the accusations.

As far as playing the "race card", I'd define it as an attempt to deflect or avoid criticism by claiming that it is at least in part racially motivated. Herman Cain for instance is dead on that he was attacked because his leading the Republican nomination race removed one of the Democrats' most effective attacks, that Republicans are racist white men. However, he was making this claim to mitigate the damage taken from his own behavior by claiming he was targeted because of his race; he was playing the race card. Similarly, Holder is playing the race card, attempting to get a pass by alleging racial motives.

LOL at myself for defending Holder and attacking Holder in the same post, but I gotta call 'em as I see 'em.

Thank you for providing a definition. I get confused as to whether playing the "race card" means you are accusing your critics of being racist, which Holder was not doing here. At most, he was accusing a "few" of them of playing racial politics.

I think the intense criticism of Holder started long before Fast and Furious, from the very day that Obama announced his appointment and before he had done anything in office. He's attempting to explain the entire pattern of it, not just one category. Saying he is "playing the race card" begs the question of whether he is correct. Something neither you or I know. I happen to believe that some people in the GOP play racial politics, whether they themselves are racist or not. As to whether that is true here, I don't know.

What I DO know that is the "race card" card has become more than a shield against unreasonable charges of racism. It is frequently used as a sword.

- wolf

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I think the intense criticism of Holder started long before Fast and Furious, from the very day that Obama announced his appointment and before he had done anything in office.

- wolf

He had previously approved the Marc Rich pardon. IMO, that was indefensible no matter your politics.

It's not like he was a completely unknown commodity.

Fern

 

[werepossum]

Thank you for providing a definition. I get confused as to whether playing the "race card" means you are accusing your critics of being racist, which Holder was not doing here. At most, he was accusing a "few" of them of playing racial politics.

I think the intense criticism of Holder started long before Fast and Furious, from the very day that Obama announced his appointment and before he had done anything in office. He's attempting to explain the entire pattern of it, not just one category. Saying he is "playing the race card" begs the question of whether he is correct. Something neither you or I know. I happen to believe that some people in the GOP play racial politics, whether they themselves are racist or not. As to whether that is true here, I don't know.

What I DO know that is the "race card" card has become more than a shield against unreasonable charges of racism. It is frequently used as a sword.

- wolf

That's certainly true. And both parties play racial politics.

He had previously approved the Marc Rich pardon. IMO, that was indefensible no matter your politics.

It's not like he was a completely unknown commodity.

Fern

This is true. But actually, any political appointee, regardless of race or other factors, is going to be attacked as he or she is a manifestation of the President's will.