EPA to tell drivers real-world mileage...

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Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
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Drivers would get lower -- but more accurate -- miles-per-gallon estimates on cars they buy starting with the 2008 model year under new testing standards that are expected to be announced Thursday in Detroit at the North American International Auto Show.

Automakers and consumer advocates have been calling on the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to revamp its tests, developed in the 1970s, saying faster highways and congested roads make the EPA's numbers, derived from laboratory testing, misleading. Consumer Reports said last year that among 303 vehicles it tested, 90% fell short of the fuel economy on their window sticker, some by as much as 50%.

While the changes wouldn't immediately affect the way automakers meet federal fuel economy standards, they could push more consumers toward higher-mileage vehicles in the face of roller-coaster gasoline prices.

The EPA "needs to close the gap between what consumers experience in the real world and what they see at the dealership," said Jason Mark, director of the Clean Vehicles Program with the Union of Concerned Scientists.

According to three people familiar with the proposal, who didn't want to be named for fear of damaging relations with the EPA, the agency will change its tests in two stages.

The first stage, which would go into effect with 2008 model-year vehicles, would essentially lower mileage results by a set percentage to reflect the drain of air-conditioning and other accessories.

The adjustment might reduce the results of city mileage by up to 13%, sources said, but it wasn't immediately clear.

For cars and trucks built in the 2011 model year and beyond, the agency will propose a larger change to testing that would add three tests currently used to measure emissions to the mileage standard tests, coming up with new numbers that will likely be even lower than the previous figures.http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2005601100425
 

GeneValgene

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2002
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i exceed the EPA ratings on both my 2004 honda accord I4 AT as well as my girlfriend's 2003 honda civic hybrid CVT

people just need to ease up on the constant breaking and accelerations
 

Bassyhead

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: GeneValgene
i exceed the EPA ratings on both my 2004 honda accord I4 AT as well as my girlfriend's 2003 honda civic hybrid CVT

people just need to ease up on the constant breaking and accelerations

Yup. That and unnecessary frequent short trips that should be consolidated. I get better than EPA estimates on my current car and got excess of 35 mpg average on my old protege, better than EPA's highway number for that car.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
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Originally posted by: Safeway
Some drop by 50%? That seems a bit shady to me.

Probably reported by people who drive like morons.

Anyone who is concerned enough to read more than a sticker on a window will know that how you drive the car, where you live/drive, and the condition of the car are factors that can seriously affect that number.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,969
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Originally posted by: Safeway
Some drop by 50%? That seems a bit shady to me.

I know a few hybrids end up getting nearly that much less then the EPA estimate.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
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I get under EPA ratings, but my drive is only 2 miles so the engine never gets out of startup mode.
 

arcas

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2001
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I have a new '06 4runner that exceeds the EPA highway mpg by about 15%. City is a little below EPA but I attribute at least part of that to me still getting used to driving with an automatic transmission. I expect the mpg will increase a bit over the next few months for both city and highway as things break in.

It comes down to how you drive.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
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Originally posted by: arcas
I have a new '06 4runner that exceeds the EPA highway mpg by about 15%. City is a little below EPA but I attribute at least part of that to me still getting used to driving with an automatic transmission. I expect the mpg will increase a bit over the next few months for both city and highway as things break in.

It comes down to how you drive.

getting used to driving an Auto???

wtf, put it in park, hit the gas pedal, go.
 

Sundog

Lifer
Nov 20, 2000
12,342
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Originally posted by: arcas
I have a new '06 4runner that exceeds the EPA highway mpg by about 15%. City is a little below EPA but I attribute at least part of that to me still getting used to driving with an automatic transmission. I expect the mpg will increase a bit over the next few months for both city and highway as things break in.

It comes down to how you drive.

You are breaking it in nice and slow in accordance with the manuf. recommendations, aren't you?
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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My 2001 civic had 39 mpg highway on the sticker. I think I am getting around 39.5 so its pretty dang close now.
 

Vegito

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 1999
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Some people hit back to back traffic during rush hour when all the cars are going 5mph for 20-30 miles on the highway.

Most people that get really bad mpg during rush hour commute when theres heavy traffic..

I goto work 6:30 am so I miss rush hour. Leave after 6:30-7 PM so I get my 28mpg.. else i get like 15-20 mpg...
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,130
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This has been long overdue. Hopefully the EPA tests will no longer be custom one-of-a-kind vehicles running on things other than gasoline. Hopefully the tests will eventually be done with the accessories turned on, instead of using formulas to estimate the drain. Hopefully the tests will be in a wide variety of realistic driving conditions.

I wonder how congress will react. There are minimum MPG laws that'll likely be lowered to compensate.
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: Safeway
Some drop by 50%? That seems a bit shady to me.
Probably reported by people who drive like morons.
The Consumer Reports MPG is from professional drivers who test cars for a living using a set course with strict proceedures. It is the hybrids that don't meet the EPA claims by up to 50%.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
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If I recall correctly the original purpose of the EPA estimates was to provide a basis of comparison between vehicles and were never meant to infer real world results precisely because of all the variables mentioned in some of the above posts.
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
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Why don't they jsut take the damn cars and drive them around a track for a bit at highway speeds and then post that. Then drive it and start and stop every so often and post that.

God forbid they just use real results instead of ones made up from calculating random crap.

If it was just a comparison, then it should just rank the vehicles on a scale and not post actual mileage numbers. That's why it is misleading.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,137
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I have achieved the EPA listed mpg in my vehicle.

Driving habits have a lot to do with what kind of mpg you actually get. In this city, where sudden acceleration and braking are often required, I of course get crappy mileage.
 

radioouman

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2002
8,632
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My '93 Dakota is rated at 18 on the highway, and on my last trip to Detroit, I got 20.5 out of it. It only has 197,000 miles now. I don't know what people are complaining about.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,130
4,787
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Originally posted by: radioouman
My '93 Dakota is rated at 18 on the highway, and on my last trip to Detroit, I got 20.5 out of it. It only has 197,000 miles now. I don't know what people are complaining about.
Because in the last few years, companies have figured out how to make custom one-of-a-kind vehicles for testing with far better gas mileage than what is really driven on the streets. So in the last few years, the EPA estimate has soared when real world data doesn't keep up.

Of course your 93 vehicle is ok, there wasn't a problem back then with manipulated data.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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Originally posted by: dullard
This has been long overdue. Hopefully the EPA tests will no longer be custom one-of-a-kind vehicles running on things other than gasoline. Hopefully the tests will eventually be done with the accessories turned on, instead of using formulas to estimate the drain. Hopefully the tests will be in a wide variety of realistic driving conditions.

I wonder how congress will react. There are minimum MPG laws that'll likely be lowered to compensate.

What's realistic? You don't drive the same way I do. Maybe I don't use the A/C as much, maybe I use the vent or my windows. They can't give you a perfect rating, but they're good for comparison. By changing it, they'll make the numbers useless for comparison between model years on either side of the change.
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
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Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: dullard
This has been long overdue. Hopefully the EPA tests will no longer be custom one-of-a-kind vehicles running on things other than gasoline. Hopefully the tests will eventually be done with the accessories turned on, instead of using formulas to estimate the drain. Hopefully the tests will be in a wide variety of realistic driving conditions.

I wonder how congress will react. There are minimum MPG laws that'll likely be lowered to compensate.

What's realistic? You don't drive the same way I do. Maybe I don't use the A/C as much, maybe I use the vent or my windows. They can't give you a perfect rating, but they're good for comparison. By changing it, they'll make the numbers useless for comparison between model years on either side of the change.

They should stipulate their tests and have a standard.

For Highway Mileage we drove 100miles at 55mpg with the AC on, etc. Then do the same thign for every car. Right now it's all made up crap using theoretical numbers that don't mean anything.