EPA gives E15 the thumbs up - booooo!

[BrunoPuntzJones]

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/0...ead-despite-objections-approves-production-a/

As predicted and expected, the Environmental Protection Agency today approved the first applications to make E15, a blend of gasoline with 15 percent ethanol in it. This means that E15 is now a "significant step" closer to production and sale in America.

For decades, gasoline in the U.S. has had up to 10 percent ethanol in it, but the extra five points were enough to generate resistance. The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute and the Science Committee in the House of Representatives both took steps to prevent E15 from entering the national supply. Even the EPA admits not every vehicle should use the new blend, saying it is approved only for Model Year 2001 vehicles and newer.

Many automakers have been hesitant about E15, fearing fuel system and engine damage, so a number of them joined a lawsuit against it in 2010 through the Auto Alliance. Some have even gone so far as to say that any older vehicles that use E15 will have their warranties voided. The EPA's rules say that any pump dispensing E15 must be clearly labeled. The EPA is not requiring any station to sell E15 in any way, but the Obama Administration does want to encourage its use, and thus wants to help get 10,000 blender pumps installed in the U.S. over the next 5 years.

In late 2011, the U.S. Congress ended a 30-year tax subsidy on corn-based ethanol while also stopping tariffs on ethanol imported from Brazil. Since 1980, the ethanol industry has received an estimated $45 billion in subsidies. Check out the official EPA press release for further details after the jump.

Finding 100% stations is getting harder to find. And you can't even be sure they are being truthful...

 

[Arkaign]

Bleh. Another example of politics and corruption trumping common sense. More ethanol is just going to punish fuel economy more. It's pointless.

 

[Jumpem]

Hooray! Higher fuel prices and lower fuel economy.

 

[soccerballtux]

handout to corn farmer lobby.

can't elect members of the EPA, can't do anything about it.

 

[manimal]

Pretty soon the Rush song Red Barchetta will come to fruition.

 

[woodie1]

Yea, food prices go up even more and gas mileage continues down.

 

[disappoint]

Bleh. Another example of politics and corruption trumping common sense. More ethanol is just going to punish fuel economy more. It's pointless.

Yeah but just to counterpoint, ethanol helps clean the engine of deposits and increases power. Of course, you also need to dump more of it into the cylinder to get that power. It's good for forced induction applications where it resists detonation allowing for greater cylinder pressures thereby increasing power output.

 

[woodie1]

Yeah but just to counterpoint, ethanol helps clean the engine of deposits and increases power. Of course, you also need to dump more of it into the cylinder to get that power. It's good for forced induction applications where it resists detonation allowing for greater cylinder pressures thereby increasing power output.

Ture enough but why do they have to use corn when there are several other sources that would not impact us so negatively.

 

[jlee]

Yeah but just to counterpoint, ethanol helps clean the engine of deposits and increases power. Of course, you also need to dump more of it into the cylinder to get that power. It's good for forced induction applications where it resists detonation allowing for greater cylinder pressures thereby increasing power output.

If you have a tune for it, sure...but if I have any concern at all about power I'll be running E85 instead.

Funny, how E85 can be as low as 70% ethanol but they keep trying to jack ethanol up in regular gas. How about leave gas alone and keep E85 at 85%

 

[RU482]

every ethanol discussion in the last 5 years has the exact same comments. If you don't like it, get off your ass and do something

 

[Jeff7]

every ethanol discussion in the last 5 years has the exact same comments. If you don't like it, get off your ass and do something

Most of us don't have enough money to affect political decisions.

 

[woodie1]

every ethanol discussion in the last 5 years has the exact same comments. If you don't like it, get off your ass and do something

So far I have found no lobbyists that will take my phone call. Can you point me to one who might listen to me?

tu

 

[Arkaign]

Most of us don't have enough money to affect political decisions.

True, and with Citizens United USSC ruling, we have much less power than ever before, even in state elections.

 

[Arkaign]

And just as an ironic wrinkle in what I just said about the politicians not giving a sh*t about what we have to say, look at the opinion polls for the ruling :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission_Poll_1.png

Nobody wanted it other than sheer idiots and the corrupt core of our gov't. Just another example that the USSC is just a political, rather than logical/constitutional tool. Okay, P&N mode disabled, move about your business

 

[soccerballtux]

True, and with Citizens United USSC ruling, we have much less power than ever before, even in state elections.

can you paraphrase?

 

[Raduque]

F you, EPA.

 

[foghorn67]

Greed and corruption at it's finest. F you, Corn cartel.

 

[thedarkwolf]

"In late 2011, the U.S. Congress ended a 30-year tax subsidy on corn-based ethanol while also stopping tariffs on ethanol imported from Brazil. Since 1980, the ethanol industry has received an estimated $45 billion in subsidies. Check out the official EPA press release for further details after the jump. "

people seem to keep missing that part

 

[mmntech]

Could be worse, you could be paying 30% tax on gas like we do.

It's always amused me that the corn industry has such a powerful lobby in the US. The whole lobby aspect is what makes US politics so bizarre and not very democratic.

 

[soccerballtux]

"In late 2011, the U.S. Congress ended a 30-year tax subsidy on corn-based ethanol while also stopping tariffs on ethanol imported from Brazil. Since 1980, the ethanol industry has received an estimated $45 billion in subsidies. Check out the official EPA press release for further details after the jump. "

people seem to keep missing that part

ah, good, I thought it would never end.
I still maintain that it will hurt engines and fuel economy. I see no reason to mandate inclusion of an Oxygen molecule as part of my fuel molecules when there's plenty of oxygen in the air to use, instead.

 

[desy]

nothing wrong with ethanol for cars
Maybe older engine tehcnology but I run E10 in my 34 yr old mercury no problem

Worried about subs? get oil off first
http://www.tradereform.org/2010/11/daryll-ray-oil-subsidies-vs-ethanol-subsidies/


According to Neeley, “Looking at state and federal taxes and incentives available exclusively to the oil industry, DTN’s tally comes to $17.9 billion annually. The comparable figure exclusively for ethanol is $7.1 billion. This does not include tax credits and other incentives that both industries share, such as the blenders’ credit or VEETC.”

When other “subsidies” are included the numbers can soar. For oil, the numbers Neeley came up with can range between $100 billion and $200 billion annually, not including any costs for military activities in the Persian Gulf. When a share of military costs is added in, the numbers can go as high as $281 billion according to Neeley.


For food? get over it 50% of corn grown is for feeding cows not humans and the byproduct of biofuel? cattle feed, it makes almost NO difference in the price of food

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/apr/09/ethanol-subsidy-low-compared-oil/


The Free Press’ recent opinion on ethanol subsidies demonstrates how little they know about agriculture. Canned corn and corn on the cob prices will not increase due to ethanol demand for corn. Sweet corn is used for most human consumption while field corn is used for ethanol.

While corn demand from ethanol does increase food prices marginally, it mainly affects animal product prices through increased feed costs. However, corn available for animal feed when adjusted for ethanol byproducts has remained fairly stable over time. Foreign food demand and supply shocks and increased energy prices are the real drivers of increased food prices.

 

[Ronstang]

Our government is run by complete idiots. Let's increase the CAFE standards to ridiculous levels at the same time we reduce the mileage a gallon of gas is going to deliver. Further evidence that politicians are people who have never actually had to make anything happen in real life.

 

[LTC8K6]

A 34 YO car might accept E15 better than a 16 year old car...

Fortunately, there seems to be a decent market for Ethanol free gasoline and I can find it fairly easily in the places I haunt.

 

[Fenixgoon]

A 34 YO car might accept E15 better than a 16 year old car...

Fortunately, there seems to be a decent market for Ethanol free gasoline and I can find it fairly easily in the places I haunt.

is there a website that lists stations that are ethanol free?

both my car and motorcycle owner's manuals say blends greater than 10% ethanol WILL damage the engine.

if my vehicles break, can i sue the EPA for mandating something that destroyed my car and motorcycle?

frankly this is a terrible decision.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

http://www.buyrealgas.com/