English as a national language - Why/Why not?

[CantedValve]

I was listening to the radio, when they talked about the initiative (or whatever it is) in Colorado that would eliminate bi-lingual education, and replace it with a year english-immersion program. It is getting some pretty big support in that state (almost 70% I think).

I want to talk about this. Why don't we require everyone in this country to at least have a rudimentary understanding of english? I know this is logistically impossible, as we can never get EVERYONE, but we could get a lot fo them.

Pros? Cons?

 

[notfred]

I wouldn't require everyone in the country to speak English, as there are plenty of people in ethnic communities who have survived for thier entire lives in the USA w/o knowing English. However, I do beleive that knowing English would be of great benefit to everyone in this country, and I know from experience that bilingual education does not work. Everything gets tought twice, and each half of the class can only understand one half of what the teacher is saying. elementary school classes should be taught in one language or the other, and in the USA, I think English is the best choice for that language. The Spanish speaking kids will learn to adapt, and they'll be better off w/ string English skills.

 

[MajesticMoose]

the way i see it, you're only screwing yourself over by not knowing english in this country. If someone wants to do that, that's there perogative. The opportunities(sp?) are out there to learn. It's up to the individual to take advantage of it. However, i don't think it is worth the excess cost to mantain a system for educating people in there own langauge when it is only going to end up hurting them in the end. The idea they have seems like a good one, except that it is hard to learn a language well in just a single year. those kids are going to have a hell of a time if they just get dumped in with everyone one else after that year with no further help

 

[CantedValve]

Okay. I can see that. I wouldn't want to dictate what people do in their own homes.

What about government agencies? Should they be required to offer things like driver's tests and other certification exams in multiple languages? Should businesses be required to offer service in multiple languages? Okay, the business thing is pretty obvious, but the government thing is what I am curious about.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: CantedValve
Okay. I can see that. I wouldn't want to dictate what people do in their own homes.

What about government agencies? Should they be required to offer things like driver's tests and other certification exams in multiple languages? Should businesses be required to offer service in multiple languages? Okay, the business thing is pretty obvious, but the government thing is what I am curious about.

No. There is no reason that I as a taxpayer should have to pay for governmental forms to be printed in multiple languages just because someone refuses to learn English. Sorry but if you want to live here then you better speak the language.

 

[Maverick]

I agree that bilingual education can be a waste when it keeps non-english speaking kids from fully learning english. It was a big issue here in Colorado when they first started it years ago. Many people didn't want to pay for it so I'm not surprised an initiative to get rid of it has started.

I think bilingual education should be taught to get english speaking kids exposure to another language and maybe even achieving fluency in it. If you look at almost every other country in the world, they learn another language alongside English. Even in Canada kids start learning French long before high school. All we get in the states is a few meager years of it in high school where most people goof off and forget everything after a few years anyway. And anyone who says that it costs too much to implement language learning on top of the existing grade school education is full of it. Other countries with way less of an educational budget than us produce bilingual students that score better in every subject.

 

[vi edit]

It would be virtually impossible to EVER implement, but I would like to see a study performed to see what costs more - double printing all government documents/forms/ect, teaching/speaking in multiple languages, and the other various costs associated with catering to multiple languages - OR - if the inefficiency, double entry, or complete lack of compliance from non english speakers when it comes to filling out paper work and forms.

In general - does it cost more to print the forms in a second language, or does it cost more to fix the problems associated with NOT doing anything in a second language?

 

[UNCjigga]

Je ne comprends pas? J'avais d'etre Canadien.

 

[AzNmAnJLH]

tv........ national english brainwashing machine

 

[Confused]

Erm, if you're going to learn or teach English, at least learn the correct English, not your "American" English, with letters missing and wrong words!










<---- UK guy who always picks up on American "English", but is always j/k!

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
There is no reason that I as a taxpayer should have to pay for governmental forms to be printed in multiple languages just because someone refuses to learn English. Sorry but if you want to live here then you better speak the language.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Je ne comprends pas? J'avais d'etre Canadien.

Mais, je suis americain avec famille etranger...du le pais "el Salvador"....ils parlent l'espangol


maintenant, je parle anglais, francais et espagnol, et je peux parle et ecrit tout.



Basically for all the English-speaking folks, I told the "canadien" off....

 

[Cyberian]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
It would be virtually impossible to EVER implement, but I would like to see a study performed to see what costs more - double printing all government documents/forms/ect, teaching/speaking in multiple languages, and the other various costs associated with catering to multiple languages - OR - if the inefficiency, double entry, or complete lack of compliance from non english speakers when it comes to filling out paper work and forms.

In general - does it cost more to print the forms in a second language, or does it cost more to fix the problems associated with NOT doing anything in a second language?

Good question, but we would be dealing with far more than two languages.
How many languages should we be required to teach in schools to address all the immigrants to this country?

That being said, it must be difficult for a 10 year old who speaks no English to be thrown into all English instruction. If no one at home speaks English it must be even more difficult.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: CantedValve
Okay. I can see that. I wouldn't want to dictate what people do in their own homes.

What about government agencies? Should they be required to offer things like driver's tests and other certification exams in multiple languages? Should businesses be required to offer service in multiple languages? Okay, the business thing is pretty obvious, but the government thing is what I am curious about.

No. There is no reason that I as a taxpayer should have to pay for governmental forms to be printed in multiple languages just because someone refuses to learn English. Sorry but if you want to live here then you better speak the language.

Agreed. I see no reason why the DMV should be required to give a license exam in any language other than english. It should be the responsibility of the non english speaker to pay for translation services.

 

[OutHouse]

I know I am voting to get rid of bi-lingual education. study after study has proven bi-lingual education impairs the student.

My question is why is it only spanish speakers that are against this measure? They are the only ones i have heard grumbling about this initiatave. All the provisions in place are to accomdiate a spanish-english bi-lingual system, all the other immigrants Legal or other wise that speak different languages have no such programs.

 

[Moonbeam]

I would say that only people fluent in two languages should be able to vote on this matter. They will at least have an appreciation of the challenge envolved.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would say that only people fluent in two languages should be able to vote on this matter. They will at least have an appreciation of the challenge envolved.

Anyone that is 1st or 2nd generation descendent most likely already have an appreciation of the difficulty of learning a new language since our parents or grandparents likely had to do it. That does not change the fact that the defacto official language of the US is english. Our Constitution and other founding documents are in english as well as our laws and civil codes. In my own case my grandfather refused to speak Italian to his children. He felt it was his obligation as a citizen of the US to speak the language of his adopted home.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I would say that only people fluent in two languages should be able to vote on this matter. They will at least have an appreciation of the challenge envolved.

I agree.


Bilingual education sort of screwed me over.

Half was in english and half in spanish, so I never learned science in english until the 6th grade

Obviosuly, many consider me to be friggin smart because I can do anything from telling you off to having a profound disscussion in three languages....

..but after going through it I must admit it was confusing as hell in sixth grade when I finally started taking everything in english only.

What the hell was a pendulum?

Liters? WTF?



as you can see, it is confusing...you might as well repeat everything in two languages, but leaving stuff out is just plain wrong.

It is like someone telling you "penis" means "popsicle"


When you want to suck, the ice cream man invites you into his truck :Q

 

[LOLyourFace]

when English proves to be the perfect language, maybe.

So many inconsistencies. The way Chaos, Chasis, etc are pronouced. And very complex, headache inducing punctunation/grammar rules.

Try to learn Korean. So easy. (aka stick figure language)

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

English should be made the national language. Period.

nik

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Confused
Erm, if you're going to learn or teach English, at least learn the correct English, not your "American" English, with letters missing and wrong words!










<---- UK guy who always picks up on American "English", but is always j/k!

you pommies changed the language on us after we were rid of you and yet you always claim that you're right, when in fact, we are speaking the language of shakespeare and you're speaking some whimsy, musical version of said language implemented because victoria thought english sounded drab in comparison with french.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: LOLyourFace
when English proves to be the perfect language, maybe.

So many inconsistencies. The way Chaos, Chasis, etc are pronouced. And very complex, headache inducing punctunation/grammar rules.

Try to learn Korean. So easy. (aka stick figure language)

If I emigrated to Korea I would.

 

[scauffiel]

I think it's supposed to be one of the things you have to demonstrate to be awarded citizenship here in the states; the ability to read and write in English. I see nothing wrong with that, I shouldn't go over to Spain, request citizenship and then b!tch and moan because everything is in Spanish.

If you are here in America to partake of the rich opportunities then I don't think it's too much to ask that you speak and write our friggin language. If that IS too difficult, then... goodbye.

S.

 

[yakko]

Originally posted by: uncJIGGA
Je ne comprends pas? J'avais d'etre Canadien.

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is one of those people from Canadia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I think they actually tried to pass a law like this in California about 8 years ago and it was overturned even though it was voted in at about 75% and almost all of the foreign speaking people approved of it.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

This is the land of the free. People should speak whatever language they want. You basically HAVE to know English to function in the US, so why make it law? Just to say "fvck you immigrants!"??