Engineering Economic Collapse

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
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Someone (on talk radio) mentioned a proposed disaster study by Clowers & Piggeon (s/p} that supposedly laid the groundwork for the mess that we are getting in to. I can?t find anything on the net probably because I misspelled it. TC & P suggested that if you were to inflect frequent destructive policies you could bring down a government.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
are you looking for something left-wing, like this (Rules_for_Radicals)

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year [in 1971]. They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default."

or something right wing like this (Alex Jones):

http://www.infowars.com/one-in...efaults-are-strategic/

http://www.infowars.com/bernan...-the-great-depression/

http://www.infowars.com/unempl...stimulus-than-without/

http://www.infowars.com/us-lur...s-on-course-to-double/

 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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According to democrats, they are not destructive. We would be at 25% unemployment if it weren't for the stimulus spending.
Except that hardly any of the stimulus money has actually been spent. Like, 10% of it.
 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
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Originally posted by: DixyCrat
are you looking for something left-wing, like this (Rules_for_Radicals)

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year [in 1971]. They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default."

or something right wing like this (Alex Jones):

http://www.infowars.com/one-in...efaults-are-strategic/

http://www.infowars.com/bernan...-the-great-depression/

http://www.infowars.com/unempl...stimulus-than-without/

http://www.infowars.com/us-lur...s-on-course-to-double/

I think these guys wrote a book in the 70?s or 80?s. Essentially their premise is the continuous Friday afternoon crisis announcements is a plan to make the public more willing to accept change. These changes are deemed to be impossible to meet and will eventually stress the existing government structure to collapse and allow socialism to arise.

 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
2
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Originally posted by: senseamp
Bitterness and sore losering is strong in this thread.

? I don't agree. Are you familiar with this theory at all?
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: FlashG
What I was looking for

http://www.cloward-piven.com/

Right-wng paranoia.

Far from it... it is paranoia plain and simple and there is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy paranoia now and again.

If anything along the CP orchestrated chaos lines was/is happening an analysis of events of the past 10-15 years would have to conclude that Bush started it and Obama is batting clean-up.
 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
2
0
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: FlashG
What I was looking for

http://www.cloward-piven.com/

Right-wng paranoia.

Far from it... it is paranoia plain and simple and there is nothing wrong with a bit of healthy paranoia now and again.

If anything along the CP orchestrated chaos lines was/is happening an analysis of events of the past 10-15 years would have to conclude that Bush started it and Obama is batting clean-up.

Personally I think that you are wrong. Thanks for stating your opinion.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Originally posted by: FlashG
Originally posted by: DixyCrat
are you looking for something left-wing, like this (Rules_for_Radicals)

"There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year [in 1971]. They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don't encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let's not let it happen by default."

or something right wing like this (Alex Jones):

http://www.infowars.com/one-in...efaults-are-strategic/

http://www.infowars.com/bernan...-the-great-depression/

http://www.infowars.com/unempl...stimulus-than-without/

http://www.infowars.com/us-lur...s-on-course-to-double/

I think these guys wrote a book in the 70?s or 80?s. Essentially their premise is the continuous Friday afternoon crisis announcements is a plan to make the public more willing to accept change. These changes are deemed to be impossible to meet and will eventually stress the existing government structure to collapse and allow socialism to arise.

Heard something similar to this on Glenn Beck's radio show last week. I don't normally listen to him, but my work hours were in flux and I tuned in while driving home.
 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
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Read up on ACORN and George Soros if you want to learn more. Curiousor and curiousor
 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
2
0
Very concise and insightful Vic. I?m just discovering this philosophy as we go and am trying to keep an open mind.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
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Originally posted by: FlashG
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: FlashG
What I was looking for

http://www.cloward-piven.com/

Right-wng paranoia.

Thats a little strong on your part. It?s not completely worthless and does contain some insight none the less.

If I point you to Das Capital by Marx, or to the writings of Keynes, or any other large body of an analogous ideology, will you promise to carefully respond to each point in it?

Of course you won't. Some things don't deserve detailed scrutiny.

The piece you linked contains the language of radical paranoia, including highly reactionary distortions regardng ACORN and Soros.

When they try to turn ACORN into a bogeyman threatening the future of the human race (to use a little hyperbole) instead of the modest group they are to increase the low registration rate among the poor, it's really enough to get the level of analysis in the document overall.

It's a little like a piece starting out with a claim the holocaust didn't happen, you can infer a lot about the credibility of the rest of the piece.

So, I don't think it's strong. Like most article, you could probably find some nuggets of truth, or at least arguable points, but I don't find them justifying the big flaws.

If you would like the alleged good points somewhere in it to be discussed, I suggest you pull them out and post them specifically, not expect the reader to do so.

I'll mention that one such 'nugget' is the basic idea of using crisis - manufactured or not - for its ability to let otherwise unacceptable policies get passed.

But I've discussed that a lot with references to the book "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein, and don't see anything this article adds to the topic as it distorts the issue.

In other words, while citing a valid thing - crisis getting bad policy passed - instead of looking at where it's happening, it invents it happening to get socialism passed.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Originally posted by: FlashG
Read up on ACORN and George Soros if you want to learn more. Curiousor and curiousor

ACORN

The fruit nut of the oak tree has gotten very popular since Obama was elected:confused: I thought only squirrels like those things:)
 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
2
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Craig234, as I?ve said previously I?m just becoming aware of C & P. I think you are reading to deeply in my interest of the subject. Right now I don?t have a list of good or bad points to share. At least your response was informative and that?s what I?m looking for.

That being said are you aware of any other similar economic dooms day philosophies?
 

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
2
0
Originally posted by: GuitarDaddy
Originally posted by: FlashG
Read up on ACORN and George Soros if you want to learn more. Curiousor and curiousor

ACORN

The fruit nut of the oak tree has gotten very popular since Obama was elected:confused: I thought only squirrels like those things:)

I bet you like pie as well?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: FlashG
Very concise and insightful Vic. I?m just discovering this philosophy as we go and am trying to keep an open mind.

If you think this is a philosophy, might I suggest you take up crocheting as a competitive sport?