Engine (Car) questions... Fuel Injection vs Carby on 351 Cleveland.

[DaLeroy]

Guys

I'm rebuilding (Nearly done) a 351C. It's going into an older car ('82) and came out with a Carby (currently a 650 dp) The engine is 'warm', nothing too over the top. Bigger Cam, new pistons, bored out 30 thou, balanced, yellow terra roller rockers, hydrolic (sp?) lifters etc. I'm just wondering what benefits I would get moving to fuel injection, over the carby. I understand it will be easier to tune, easier to start in the morning. How about fuel consumption? noticable diff? Power? Are there off the shelf setups that I can buy and fit myself? Cost wise....How much for the complete setup, I've never seen them advertised for a 351 (in Australia here). Is it worth it the price over a carby setup?

Thanks guys

 

[cavemanmoron]

check with http://www.summitracing.com/ linked
it is not a cheap thing to convert a carburated eninge/car to fuel injection
i would put on a 750 double pumper
oh Don't do to many Burnouts Mate... i hear that they will impound your car down under for that!
I did one in my Camaro{67 with a 427 big block,4 speed disc brakes and NO power sterring} last fall 2 blocks from my house,and when i parked the car a policeman drove up and yelled hey nice car,but watch the Noise!!

 

[BeHeMOTH]

Well I would say it would cost alot more to convert to fuel injection, but alot more work. I'm just going to stick with my stock build on my 351c in my mustang. What car is it going into? The biggest thing for me in my rebuild was converting to unleaded gas so I had some head work to do but love the sound.

 

[Ladies Man]

Tis a shame you didn't pick at 351w
i know stock for stock the 351C had more power but the 351w has a better after market and they put fuel injected 351w in stock cars/trucks so it is not hard to find a fi 351w or convert a 351w to fi

 

[Ronstang]

I converted a 351 Windsor to fuel injection for use in a '93 Mustang. It was very pricey but it runs beautifully now. If you go with FI then use a the computer system from a Fox mustang with an appropriately modified intake. It requires a lot of work but the benefits are worht it. We get 16 mpg in a street/race car that would probably only get ~10 mpg with a card.

 

[Ladies Man]

and i just realized i was being an ass and didn't answer your questions



1. Fuel Consumption.... Carb will give more. EFI will give the right about of gas at the right times if tuned correctly. There will be a significant increase in mpg if you use EFI.
2. Noticable diff? power? I doubt it... carbs can give a ton of gas to that engine
3. off the shelf? I doubt it... see my above post
4. cost wise? def not cheap.. you haven't seem them advertised probably because they don't make them. 351C had a short life.

 

[notfred]

What's the difference between the 351 Windsor and Cleveland?

 

[speed01]

There's always the Holley ProJection system. That way you won't have to change anything as it's a bolt-on.

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Cleveland was built in Cleveland

Its got HUGE heads. They were only built in the US from like 67 to 74 or something like that. I had a 73 version done up a bit and it worked fairly slick.

 

[Ronstang]

That Holley Pro-Jection setup is a huge pile of crap. I have had experience with it personally and it never worked properly. Do not waste your time or money playing around with a half ass solution to fuel injection.

 

[Ladies Man]

from alittle bit of searching heres what i got
first off they are 2 completely different beasts

The 351C is a LARGE small block. The only resemblance it has to the Windsor family is head bolt pattern and cylinder bore spacing.

 

[DaLeroy]

<< Tis a shame you didn't pick at 351w
i know stock for stock the 351C had more power but the 351w has a better after market and they put fuel injected 351w in stock cars/trucks so it is not hard to find a fi 351w or convert a 351w to fi >>



It's the orginal engine for the car, actually a very rare Australia 4 bolt main clevo with 140,000 km's on it. Looking at those prices tho, I think I'll stick with the carby setup, looks a wee bit expensive...

 

[desertdweller]

<< What's the difference between the 351 Windsor and Cleveland? >>




The Cleveland engine is basically a de-stroked ford 400 with very large heads. You can get them
with either 4-V heads, or 2-V heads with the 4-V being the larger of the two. However, even the
2-V heads are large by most production engine standards. The Cleveland is a great motor, I just sold
a 68 mustang that i swapped in a 351c for and you can buy just about anything for it that you can any other
motor; however be prepared to spend more.

One thing to keep in mind, the oiling on that engine was terrible. At mid to high RPMs the cam gets
oil starved and it tends to wipe out the last one or two lobes. There is a restrictor that you can install
that will make a difference. You can ask your local hot rod shop about it.

If you choose your carb properly, and you know how to tune it, you wont see much of a MPG difference
between that and fuel injection. Cold starts with FI is much better, but once the car starts it wont make
a big difference.


DD

 

[BeHeMOTH]

to add to desertdweller's answer:

Windsor is a small block version and the Cleveland is a big block

Ford motors ranged from 289,302,351W,351C,390,429CJ I believe.

 

[Kenazo]

also, the windsor is a canadian engine, eh..

 

[JC]

<< to add to desertdweller's answer:

Windsor is a small block version and the Cleveland is a big block

Ford motors ranged from 289,302,351W,351C,390,429CJ I believe. >>



Whoa, whoa.....crossin some lines, there.

the Windsor motors include 221, 260, 289, 302, and 351W.
The 351 Cleveland stands alone.
The FE series includes 352, 390, 406, and 428.
The M series (sometimes called Modified, Midland) include the 351M and 400. They are low-rpm smog-era motors.
The 429 and 460 are from the Lima series.
The 427 medium-riser, high-riser and side-oiler are similar to the FE series.

As far as the Cleveland being a 'big block', that term is generally applied to 400+ ci motors.

And as far as the original question, DaLeroy, FI prolly isn't cost-effective for you. But it'd be damn cool

JC

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Yea when I was doing the research on my Cleveland I even saw it written up as a "mid-block". I don't know how many times I have heard people say that have a Cleveland and I look under the hood and its a 351 windsor or 351 modified. I have even seen people that knew engines get them confused. The water neck on the Cleveland is a dead giveaway.

 

[DaLeroy]

<<
And as far as the original question, DaLeroy, FI prolly isn't cost-effective for you. But it'd be damn cool

JC >>



Damn cool is an under-statement

Think I'll save my money and put it towards something more useful, like a toploader

Is there going to be a big difference in power between a 750 dp and a 650 dp?

 

[JC]

Depending on your RPM range, mebbe not. The 750 would be better if you're twisting it tight (6000+)
From the parts you listed, maybe a 750 vacuum secondary would be fine for you, and give you better mileage to boot. Double-dumpers are overrated for moderate street use.

JC

 

[DaLeroy]

<< Depending on your RPM range, mebbe not. The 750 would be better if you're twisting it tight (6000+)
From the parts you listed, maybe a 750 vacuum secondary would be fine for you, and give you better mileage to boot. Double-dumpers are overrated for moderate street use.

JC >>



The engine is being built to rev to ~7000rpm....I think the cam is designed to deliver most power between 2500-5500...not too sure on those figures tho, at work. I used to have a 650 Vacum sec, but was not really happy at all with it's performance, the 650dp was a fair bit quicker....

 

[JC]

Whew, 7000RPM with juice lifters! Go with the 750DP. What kinda rear gear ya got?

 

[DaLeroy]

<< Whew, 7000RPM with juice lifters! Go with the 750DP. What kinda rear gear ya got? >>



Rear end isn't anything spesh right now....still got the original 2.92 4 Pinion LSD....It's no 9 inch, but it's pretty much bullet proof for my needs Am thinking of going with 3.23's...as soon as I can afford it...Stupid car was meant to be finished about 10 months ago....still off the road :disgust: It just keeps stealing all my money

 

[JC]

If you've got a cam good for 7000, chances are the specs call for something like 3.70-4.10 out back (out back- get it?? )

It'll prolly be a dog off the line with the 2.92 (even the 3.23) and the DP carb will only make it worse. Go deep!!

JC

 

[DaLeroy]

<< If you've got a cam good for 7000, chances are the specs call for something like 3.70-4.10 out back (out back- get it?? )

It'll prolly be a dog off the line with the 2.92 (even the 3.23) and the DP carb will only make it worse. Go deep!!

JC >>



Think the cam maxes out at 5500 or 6000.....yeah, I will be changing the 2.92 as soon as it is on the road....although, being a street car, 4.11's aren't real practical....too many gear changes I think I'll go for 3.55's....my mate has them with his 351 and seems to go alright....

Do you drive a big bastard V8? Ya seem to know what ya talking about!

 

[JC]

68 F100/390/C6 auto/3.25 rear

-former mechanic