Enermax Liberty 500W - blah..modular design is crap

[MDesigner]

I was lured in by the hype of the modular cable design, when in the end, it's useless. Unless someone can explain how this should work, here's what's going on:

I have an Antec SLK3000-B. I plug one of the modular cables into the Enermax, and plug the first molex into my DVD+-RW drive at the top. Well.. there hangs two useless SATA connectors (because the HD cage is at the bottom of the case, and the SATA plugs won't reach) and another molex I have no use for. But I still have two SATA HDs that need power, and a 120mm rear chassis fan and a 4-pin ATX4P1 (PCI-e) socket on the Abit motherboard.

I whip out a second modular cable.. plug it into the Enermax.. and plug the two SATA power cables into the HDs, rendering the two molex connectors useless, because they won't reach anywhere. Yay.

I get out a third cable, plug it into the PSU, and that cable takes care of the 120mm rear fan and ATX4P1 PCI-e supplemental power.

In the end, I wind up with a mess I WANTED to avoid by getting this modular PSU. What a disappointment. I think Enermax must've tested this out only a certain few cases & thought "gee, this works great!" Maybe on some cases it does. But the connectors on each cable are WAY WAY too close together. It's a shoddy design. I might end up either returning this PSU or selling it on Anandtech, and getting a Seasonic.

 

[JEDIYoda]

some pictures would help us be able to help you better!! Thx

 

[erikistired]

i certainly have a cleaner case with my liberty than i had before, but i hear you on the extra connectors. it should have been either/or, not molex and sata staggered. it would have meant more cables tho, and probably more money.

 

[MDesigner]

I will post pics soon.. I have to back up some files on my old PC first, then I'll have both machines open. Maybe I'll do a comparison shot.

 

[erikistired]

i find the biggest thing is i don't have to bundle up an extra 4 or 5 cables like i did before. the extra leads i do have i was able to tie off really nice and neat and it works as good as i expected. if they sold some custom cables i might pick them up tho, that would be neat.

But the connectors on each cable are WAY WAY too close together.

i believe this was buy design. instead of having say three cables, one with 2 sata, one with 2 molex, one with 1 sata 1 molex, they combined the connectors into one cable, probably to save money. unfortunately it makes the cable a little bulkier, but i can sorta understand why they do it. i don't believe you were meant to be able to use all four connectors at once (i think i read this on their website).

 

[Howard]

I think SPCR mentioned the problem you're having. Let me dig up the link.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article279-page3.html

See "Cable Counterpoint" at bottom.

 

[HO]

Random Thought: I thought it was interesting that the CEOs of PC Power and Cooling and OCZ both said (in CPU magazine) modulars are inferior. The difference, of course, is that PCPC doesn't make modulars but OCZ does. Go figure.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: HO
Random Thought: I thought it was interesting that the CEOs of PC Power and Cooling and OCZ both said (in CPU magazine) modulars are inferior. The difference, of course, is that PCPC doesn't make modulars but OCZ does. Go figure.

It wouldn't be difficult to design modular plugs with a minimal contact resistance, but of course that costs money (not that much, though).

 

[furballi]

Modular PSUs are the current HOT fad. For optimum performance, all the power lines should be soldered directly to the PSU's motherboard. The contact resistance at each connector can amount to 0.1 to 0.3V drop at high current load.

 

[Rubycon]

Tests have shown that connector resistance is negligible. IR scanning shows very little heating at the connectors. If they do heat up there is definitely a contact surface area issue.

My Liberty 620 is a fine PS and under heavy loads is quiet and the voltages are anchored solidly. It's not cheap but you get what you pay for.

 

[F1shF4t]

I have a modular PSU, and even though its modular I still use ALL the cables that it came with, which sorta defies the point of getting a modular one
Its sorta hard to plug in 2 sata power connectors + 1 molex for HDD's, 2 molex for gfx card, 2 molex for optical drives, 1 molex for pcie power, and a something like 3 molex connectrors for fans and still have connectors left over.

 

[furballi]

Have never come across a consumer PSU with less than 0.01 ohm contact resistance. At 10A load, the voltage drop is 0.1V. Also note that the contact resistance will INCREASE with time due to oxidation. In a modern automobile, the effect of contact resistance is even more critical due to the wide range of temperature and humidity. Ideally, both mating surfaces should be the same material to minimize galvanic corrosion. You will never see Toyota mix gold and non-gold plated connectors.

My $22 350 Antec SmartPower V2.0 puts out 12.09 to 12.21VDC (calibrated DMM readings), depending on load. Price is not always a good indication of performance.

BTW, a quality connector should have at least two wiping contacts.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

furballi, after a life time of automotive work with salt water boats, off road heavy equipment, over the road trucks, cranes, restoring Brit&Eye-Tie bikes, etc I know how silly dry connections are. That's why all comp connections, cards & RAM included get treated with Caig Labs ProGold. I just bought a modular PSU and it will get the treatment before entering service. I do wish the main harness was hardwired but it's not.

A little too much FUD guy.

...Galvanized

 

[furballi]

KISS. Folks are brainwashed by the mfr to pay more $ for a sub-standard product. Modular PSUs are cheaper to build. Simply plug in a different module and you will be able to charge more $ for those extra bells and whistles. Make them cheaper and leave it to the marketing department to sell the product.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: HO
Random Thought: I thought it was interesting that the CEOs of PC Power and Cooling and OCZ both said (in CPU magazine) modulars are inferior. The difference, of course, is that PCPC doesn't make modulars but OCZ does. Go figure.

But if you read what the CEO of PC Power & Cooling has to say then you will understand why!

Also there are several other brand that also do not make modular PSU`s!! I believe Zippy is one of those brands!! Zippy also makes top notch PSU`s that run neck and neck with PC Power & Cooling!!
So I wonder why these 2 top quality brands don`t have any modular PSU`s??
Possibly they both know something that others don`t?
But they also could be old school in how they approach PSU`s!!

Check this out before you are so quick to judgement!!

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...hreadid=1720779&enterthread=y&arctab=y

There are reasons why peeps don`t buy modular but Furbali in his posts on this thread is very correct!!

Yet nobody is saying a modular PSU will not work.
I for one will never go modular, but thats just me.

Also there is a company that is authorized my PC Power & Cooling to mod there PSU`s and make them modular!! -- http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php

Scroll to the bottom of this page to see the authorization given to Performance PCs -- http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/...ain_page=product_info&products_id=1735

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi, Like my good buddy used to say, "It ain't better, it's just different!". Jim

 

[leegroves86]

First off, Zippy doesn't make "consumer" PSUs. they make server grade PSUs, that's why they don't have modular design. Would a network admin really brag about modular cableing on his server that's stuck in a cold dark closet??? I don't think so...

I must admit to owning the Enermax 500W just like the OP. And I heart it. The sata & molex was probably done with the best of intentions but it really isn't the best. 3 types of cables consisting of: Sata, Molex and Sata + Moles (like now) would probably be perfect for me. I upgraded from a non modular Tt PSU and it has made a world of difference in my case (pun intended). The cableings are plenty long enough so they are well hidden now. In fact, I use all but the second PCI-E cable and one regular cable. However, modular cableing might not work for everyone.

I think we should all be more concerned with the quality of the insides of the PSU rather than if it is "disconnectable" If modular cables were no good then companies wouldn't risk their repuation on making a bad product. However, big companies like Antec & Enermax know that Modular cableing is fine.

just my 2 cents -lee

edited for grammar

 

[MDesigner]

Company size has nothing to do with good judgment in product design. Microsoft is huge, and look at them.. they make all kinds of screw-ups in their hardware and software. I see TONS of things that could've been done better.

Modular cabling is a great concept, but poorly executed in the Enermax Liberty.

 

[Chumster]

To the OP: to be honest, it sounds like you didn't do enough research before dropping 100 bones on a component for your PC. There are other modular PSUs that don't take the same approach Enermax does; in fact, most only include single type connectors. In the future you would be better served to actually read about the product before purchasing blind and then complaining later. In my case, the Liberty 500 was a perfect fit because I have a mixture of SATA and IDE drives in my HD cage.

.. and for those who believe that all modular supplies are somehow inferior, please point me to a respected review site that concurs. So far, I've just seen quotes from the folks at PPC -- and to be honest, that ain't enough. My rig (Opty 165 @ 2700Mhz) runs with rock-solid rails and the modular connectors aren't noticeably warmer than any other part of the PSU.

Chum

 

[orangat]

Originally posted by: MS Dawn
Tests have shown that connector resistance is negligible. IR scanning shows very little heating at the connectors. If they do heat up there is definitely a contact surface area issue.

My Liberty 620 is a fine PS and under heavy loads is quiet and the voltages are anchored solidly. It's not cheap but you get what you pay for.

Do you have a link to those tests?

 

[furballi]

A quality DMM can measure DC resistance down to 0.01 ohm. A nominal PSU modular connector will show a resistance between 0.02 and 0.05 ohm.

Resistance welding is based on the same principle...passing 2000 to 3000 amps across two pieces of metal whose contact resistance is MUCH lower than 0.01 ohm (due to the clamping action of the weld electrodes). The heat generated is a function of weld current to the 2nd order, contact resistance, and weld time.

Nickel-chromium has high contact resistance and is, therefore, easier to weld than gold (low contact resistance).

I don't need to read an online PSU review to analyze a Physics 101 problem! I'm not saying that those HIGH PRICED modular PSUs will fail with use. However, if you're going to pay big bucks for a PSU, then the PSU should incorporate sound engineering design for OPTIMUM performance.

 

[Chumster]

Originally posted by: furballiI don't need to read an online PSU review to analyze a Physics 101 problem! I'm not saying that those HIGH PRICED modular PSUs will fail with use. However, if you're going to pay big bucks for a PSU, then the PSU should incorporate sound engineering design for OPTIMUM performance.

But does the difference in resistance equal any real world difference? No one is claming that they have the same exact characteristics as a non-modular PSU, but rather that the difference is negligible when it comes to normal and even enthusiast usage. Will a standard PSU allow you to OC better? Will it be more stable? There's nothing to show that it will.

And as for price, there are plenty of non-modulars that cost well over $100.

 

[furballi]

A drop of 0.1 to 0.2V at the 12V rail COULD present an issue with a few difficult boards. In the best case scenario, there will be a very small power loss. Worst case...PC instability especially if the PSU's rail is sagging due to high load or insufficient voltage regulation.

It all boils down to the QUALITY of the interconnects at the back of the PSU. With the modular design, there are more variables that could fail with use.

 

[Chumster]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance in the subject, but how does a .01ohm increase in resistance equal a .1~.2 drop in Voltage on a 12V line?

I suppose my point is that were this a legitimate problem, there would be far more reports on the subject. As it stands, I can't find a good report that definitively demonstrates where a well made modular PSU has caused instabilities. The way you make it sound, this problem is inherent to ALL modular power supplies and should be easily demonstrated. Perhaps you can write an article on the subject and put my skepticisms to rest.

 

[furballi]

V=IR=10*0.01=0.1V drop. That's under ideal condition. With oxidation of the connector over time, the voltage drop will be larger.

Ever had to replug those RCA jacks or speaker cables to clear up audio-related issues with your home entertainment system? Same basic principle of degradation. With the smaller connectors found in PSUs, the problem will only get worse with time.

Get a physics book from your local library if you want to learn from an OFFICIAL source.