Energy-Saving Mid-Range Gaming Build

[goforbass]

Greetings all and thanks in advance for the input.

I am planning on building a PC in about a month (will order the parts around mid August) with a budget of around $1,000 - $1,200 (US). We have 2 PCs, and this will replace the older one which currently has a 19" LCD so a new monitor doesn't have to be included, but an upgrade to a 22"widescreen would be nice if it fits. No other parts will be re-used except maybe the keyboard and mouse if budget is tight.

The PC will need to be able to play games reasonably well, but I don't keep up with the latest releases nor do I ever turn on anti-aliasing and such. Something capable of feeding the native resolution of a 24" monitor would be future proof enough for me. And I primarily play MMOs so CPU is generally not the bottleneck.

The curveball is that I would like this PC to replace my current Media Center PC which has two ATI Theater 650 Pro TV tuners (these would be re-used - I lied, so sue me - that means a minimum of 2 PCI slots right there) and records digital broadcasts for my Xbox 360 to pull from. (By the way this whole digital conversion push-back really screwed me. I recently had to reinstall that system due to HDD failure, and Media Center failed to find any of the currently broadcasting channels when I was setting back up - a common problem I discovered while researching a fix which I never got to work. June 12 and it magically started working again after 2 months with no TV so thank you very much for the unscheduled delay all you bottom-feeders) Since this means largely leaving the Media Center PC on to be able to record whatever programming has been marked to be recorded or to be available to serve up media for the 360, I would like to minimize the power this PC draws while it is idle. (Does a sleeping/hibernating PC still run the CPU at "idle" or is there a lower power state?)

I generally have favored Intel and nVidia products, but I am a little eager to go with AMD/ATI this time around if I can find a solution that competes in terms of value and is matured beyond the occasional quirks and lack of polish(sp) I have perceived from some of AMD/ATI products. I had been watching Intel's new on-die gpu/cpu pairing (can't remember name), but it is still a ways off so too bad. I like that some AMD mobos come with a decent integrated gpu which can use Crossfire to hand off graphical load to the discrete graphics card once heavy lifting is required (this leaves the graphics card turned all the way off the bulk of the time, right?), but last I checked those were generally only available on smaller form factors which may or may not work for me. I have read that nVidia supports (or is working on?) support for a similar capability but haven't seen much on the subject. (Would ATI integrated gpu be able to hand off to an nVidia card?)

Regarding overclocking, the $50 heatpipe coolers are great value adds in my opinion, and I would be interested in overclocking the CPU only (the memory and GPU I am less interested in seeing a shortened lifespan on while a CPU upgrade in 2-3 years is just fine) if it doesn't cripple the power savings features of the CPU too badly. I am not well versed in the different things CPUs do to save power when not going full throttle, but I seem to recall some of those features can sometimes be turned off when overclocking so any informed confirmation to that effect would be appreciated.

RAM should be future proof so that more can be added in 2-3 years (I'm thinking that rules our DDR2 but welcome opinions). 3 gigs is really the least I would go with for vista, which likely needs to be rounded up to 4 gigs for a new system.

I figure on a HDD in the ballpark of 750 gig and I am putting a priority on a 60 gig SSD (figuring on OCZ's Agility series) if it can at all possibly fit.

Now to get an idea of how things add up I will throw out general numbers for the 'normal stuff' from a recent budget builders' guide:

CASE & POWER SUPPLY: $100
HEATSINK for CPU: $50
HDD (mechanical for storage): $80
SSD: $200
OPTICAL DRIVE: $25
KEYBOARD/MOUSE: $25
SPEAKERS: $20
WINDOWS 7: $100

TOTAL: $600

That leaves $400 - $600 for:
CPU
MOTHERBOARD
RAM
VIDEO CARD
MONITOR ($160 if it fits)

I think that covers everything. Rebates I prefer to avoid if possible - been burned enough by that route.

AFTER SOME RESEARCH AND DECISION MAKING I HAVE STARTED FOCUSING ON THE FOLLOWING FOR THE CORE COMPONENTS:

($75) CPU: Athlon II X2
($125) MOBO: AMD 790GX
($210) VIDEO: Radeon HD4890

 

[mpilchfamily]

if you want power saving then you may want to look into an motherboard with an nvidia chipset that supports hybrid SLI or a board with a similar feature. With this technoligy the system will run of the onboard video and switch over to the video card when more power is needed for 3d rendering of games and what not.

 

[Lunyone]

Originally posted by: mpilchfamily
if you want power saving then you may want to look into an motherboard with an nvidia chipset that supports hybrid SLI or a board with a similar feature. With this technoligy the system will run of the onboard video and switch over to the video card when more power is needed for 3d rendering of games and what not.

I thought AMD's 780g/790gx mobo's did this too, IIRC.

 

[goforbass]

I have taking a liking to the following combination:

($75) CPU: Athlon II X2
($125) MOBO: AMD 790GX
($210) VIDEO: Radeon HD4890

This still leaves room for a 2x2gig pair of RAM and a new monitor. I am comfortable with pairing a higher-end graphics card with a lower range CPU cause MMOs are my primary game focus and I can always upgrade CPU later if that changes and I am only out $75.

My concern with this combination is that I have read very little reinforcing that CrossfireX (the pairing of the integrated 3300 with the discrete 9870) works effectively. To be specific:

- Has anyone worked with CrossfireX and can comment on how intelligently and seemlessly it switches between GPUs? (Where does the monitor plug in - card or mobo? Does the screen flash every time GPUs trade? Are flash-based web pages likely to trigger activating the discrete card?)
- Does CrossfireX work with this hardware pairing? (I read some hardware reviews which indicated not all tiers of ATI hardware are compatible with each other)
- When the integrated GPU is handling the workload, does the discrete card turn off entirely, or does it actually just sit powered and idle?


On a side note, I have been watching for OCZ's Agility series SSDs to come out and so far have only seen them on Amazon.com at less than impressive prices - Vertex prices were pretty close. I certainly hope they come down a fair bit before it is time to pull the trigger in a month or so.

 

[Lunyone]

What case/PSU combo were you looking at?? I'd recommend a quality 450w PSU with the 4870, if that is your final GPU. You do know that 4870's have been dropping down into the 120-140 range after MIR's?? In the $200 range you can get the 4890, which is a better option, if your willing to spend that much $ on a GPU.

 

[imported_Scoop]

Originally posted by: mpilchfamily
if you want power saving then you may want to look into an motherboard with an nvidia chipset that supports hybrid SLI or a board with a similar feature. With this technoligy the system will run of the onboard video and switch over to the video card when more power is needed for 3d rendering of games and what not.

Does this actually work nowadays? Cause when HybridPower and HybridSLI first came out, it didn't work at all.

I would go with a E7XXX and a P45 combo for low power consumption. Paired with an nvidia GPU like the GTX 260 Core 216 which uses much less than any higher end AMD card, even less than 4850, while idle.

The choice of your PSU is crucial. You need a unit that hits the highest efficiency while your system is idle. Though this will be a hard task because of the GPU that has very low idle consumption but high load consumption. This system would use around 90W idle at stock. How OCing affects the idle consumption depends on the board and how it handles voltages. It might go up by anywhere from 10 to 30W.

I wouldn't normally recommend something like this but as this is about low power consumption, it's all about efficiency. Looking through various PSUs tested at SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article898-page4.html), taking the 90W idle component output as a comparison point, the Seasonic M12D-850 came out on top (barring some very low rated PSUs, but I wouldn't recommend them based on other factors like incompetent 12V rails and missing connectors). It was actually a very close tie with a couple of other PSUs but then looking at the full load consumption point of around 200W, the Seasonic was clearly more efficient, as it is a 80+ Silver rated PSU. 750W version should perform even better so that would be my recommendation specifically in this case. It also runs very quietly.

Regarding the HDD or SDD for your system, if you think SDDs are too expensive and want something bigger, SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article951-page3.html) just reviewed the Samsung F2 EcoGreen HD502HI. 500GB single platter 3.5" 5400RPM drive which had the lowest idle, or load, power consumption of any drive they have tested so far.

 

[Lunyone]

Funny how an $280 PSU does so well. Putting up against cheaper models that do pretty well too, seems a bit interesting. So if I buy a $80 PCP&C 610w PSU that did pretty good in the testing too and match it against the $280 Seasonic, where is the savings in that?? It just doesn't make sense to me. The $200 difference in price doesn't justify buying the Seasonic. I know $200 in electricity bills will take quite a long time to justify the price, IMHO. It's up to you, but even a quality 450w-550w PSU is all that you need to power this system easily. Yeah you can get a quieter and possibly a more efficient PSU for $200 more, but to me that doesn't really make sense. Don't get me wrong, Seasonic makes very good PSU's and all that, but from a financial standpoint I don't see spending that kind of $ for what you get.

 

[imported_Scoop]

Originally posted by: Lunyone
Funny how an $280 PSU does so well. Putting up against cheaper models that do pretty well too, seems a bit interesting. So if I buy a $80 PCP&C 610w PSU that did pretty good in the testing too and match it against the $280 Seasonic, where is the savings in that?? It just doesn't make sense to me. The $200 difference in price doesn't justify buying the Seasonic. I know $200 in electricity bills will take quite a long time to justify the price, IMHO. It's up to you, but even a quality 450w-550w PSU is all that you need to power this system easily. Yeah you can get a quieter and possibly a more efficient PSU for $200 more, but to me that doesn't really make sense. Don't get me wrong, Seasonic makes very good PSU's and all that, but from a financial standpoint I don't see spending that kind of $ for what you get.

True I didn't take that point into consideration at all. But we were talking about energy savings here! :laugh:

Maybe this thread is about saving the planet instead of money?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: goforbass
I have taking a liking to the following combination:

($75) CPU: Athlon II X2
($125) MOBO: AMD 790GX
($210) VIDEO: Radeon HD4890

PhII 720BE / Asus 790gx AM3 combo:$225 ($210 AR)

Idle power of the Radeon HD 4890 Reference Design is 65w and there are some floating around in the $200 range. The GTX 280 is 10w less - the 295 10w more. That's pretty good overall. The problem is you have 3 competing interests that are hard to reconcile when it comes to power consumption.

Vista is fairly good at the adjustments you can make. Fighting for cutting an extra 20w is always a good thing but (you knew it was coming) you have a massive discreet video card, 2 TV tuners (how 'bout a 'duallie'?), you want to serve files --- and your modem & router are going to pull 25-30w anyway.

 

[California Roll]

I just noticed you mentioned playing MMOs. If you play WoW, CPU will indeed be your bottleneck.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=28&threadid=2310148

 

[mpilchfamily]

Originally posted by: Lunyone

Originally posted by: mpilchfamily
if you want power saving then you may want to look into an motherboard with an nvidia chipset that supports hybrid SLI or a board with a similar feature. With this technoligy the system will run of the onboard video and switch over to the video card when more power is needed for 3d rendering of games and what not.

I thought AMD's 780g/790gx mobo's did this too, IIRC.

Yes that would be "a board with a similar feature". ;P

And yes the hybrid SLI features do work. In theary they save power but i don't know if it does or not.

 

[0roo0roo]

most hardware these days do the sleep fine. some older ones wouldnt go into a real sleep mode, you could tell..the fans still were on only harddrives shutdown in that first sleep mode. s3 or whatever only ram is refreshed, so minimal usage. hibernation is best, its off for all intents and purposes.

anyways the only way to really confirm power usage is to get a kill-a-watt.

and of course dont' cheap out on the psu. efficiency matters there. small overclocks only affect power consumption a little. checkout anandtech or tomshardware for some reviews of cpus, sometimes they test the o/c potential and include power use as well. generally its not linear, the more you crank the cpu the higher the power waste gets..it gets more wasteful at an increasing rate, but mostly near the limit.

 

[Denithor]

I was going to make the same point as CR above - WoW and most mmo games out there are actually more CPU dependent than GPU. Think about it - you've got a few hundred people running around Dal or raiding or whatever. Much more demand on CPU than the (pretty bad, honestly) graphics make on the GPU.

I run WoW on the second system in my sig (e7200/8800GTS) at 1920x1200 with everything but shadows at max. Completely smooth in most places - but bogs down pretty bad in Dal and WG (during heavy battles). And it's not like the graphics suffer then - the whole game grinds to a near halt when there are 100+ people on screen fighting (wading through molasses more like it). It ran a little smoother when I had the 8800GTS paired with the e8400 so more CPU definitely helps. I'm personally planning to jump on i5 when it launches late this year.

If you're building now though, I would suggest either an X3 720 (like hhbb recommended above - nice combo for a great price) or an X4 940. Both chips overclock easily (just increase the multiplier) and will provide considerably more CPU muscle than an X2.

 

[in64tel]

NEWEGG

even cheaper here!

dude... have you not heard of the HP firebird? Completely silent, uber power efficient!

And has SLI graphics!!! Released January of this year retailed at $1800

now it's on sale for $999

seriously, it's a winner! Elegant, quad core, silent, and super efficient.

I urge you to consider it... Yes it's not a custom built but it's simply amazing for that price.

Read the C-NET review for more info.