Energy independence courtesy of Big Government.

[techs]

Big government responsible for the US being energy independent in the next decade or so? Why yes. Yes, it is.

Would this have happened under the Tea Party? Why no, no it wouldn't.

Just heard a lecture on the history of fracking. Turns out it was Big Government who put up most of the money for its development.

While it was a two hour lecture and I can't remember a lot of the details I did look it up.

Back in 1947 Halliburton experimented with it. It didn't increase yields so they got a patent on a technique and dropped it.

In the late 1970's the Eastern Gas Shales Project, a set of dozens of public-private hydro-fracturing pilot demonstration projects. During the same period, the Gas Research Institute, a gas industry research consortium, received approval for research and funding from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.[19] In 1977, the Department of Energy pioneered massive hydraulic fracturing in tight sandstone formations. In 1997, based on earlier techniques used by Union Pacific Resources, now part of Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, Mitchell Energy, now part of Devon Energy, developed the hydraulic fracturing technique known as "slickwater fracturing" which involves adding chemicals to water to increase the fluid flow, that made the shale gas extraction economical

Yes, big government to the rescue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracking#History

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/topogeo/econresource/oilandgas/marcellus/marcellus_egsp/index.htm

http://www.em.doe.gov/bemr/bemrsites/metc.aspx

 

[highland145]

for the good of the country....what big govt should be doing but.........

How big was the govt, in today's $$, back in the 1970's?

 

[Matt1970]

That's Government working with Private Industry.

 

[techs]

That's Government working with Private Industry.

Like Obamacare?

 

[Matt1970]

Like Obamacare?

No, I don't like Obamacare

 

[Pr0d1gy]

You do realize that fracking is a serious threat to the drinking water in many areas where they are doing it, right?


Since they began fracking near this man's house, along with plenty of others, he is able to light the water coming out of his sink on fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ApZkNsXfJE

This is what happens when you try to do the right thing for the people in this country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnDs1wozj4g

Interview with a concerned citizen living near a fracking operation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInzvqCpO2U

 

[highland145]

You do realize that fracking is a serious threat to the drinking water in many areas where they are doing it, right?


Since they began fracking near this man's house, along with plenty of others, he is able to light the water coming out of his sink on fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ApZkNsXfJE

This is what happens when you try to do the right thing for the people in this country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnDs1wozj4g

Interview with a concerned citizen living near a fracking operation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInzvqCpO2U

Yes, big government to the rescue.

:hmm:

 

[charrison]

You do realize that fracking is a serious threat to the drinking water in many areas where they are doing it, right?


Since they began fracking near this man's house, along with plenty of others, he is able to light the water coming out of his sink on fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ApZkNsXfJE

This is what happens when you try to do the right thing for the people in this country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnDs1wozj4g

Interview with a concerned citizen living near a fracking operation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GInzvqCpO2U

You realize it is bad well casings and not fracking that can cause problems with the ground water. This fortunately does not happen to often and these bad wells can be plugged.

 

[PokerGuy]

You realize it is bad well casings and not fracking that can cause problems with the ground water. This fortunately does not happen to often and these bad wells can be plugged.

Yeah, it just so happens that these "bad wells" just magically happen in great numbers in areas where there happens to be fracking.

1) the jury is still out on whether fracking is a good thing or not.
2) Nobody ever said the government can't do anything right, occasionally they do get something right. It's just very infrequent, and at an incredibly high cost.

 

[Brovane]

The biggest responsibility for the increase production in oil is that the price per barrell has gone over $60/barrell and stayed there. The US has oil it just costs more to produce than in other parts of the world. A lot of this oil cannot be produced profitably at $30 barrell but can be at over $60. If we ever see the price per barrell of oil drop significantly we will see US production drop quickly.

 

[charrison]

Yeah, it just so happens that these "bad wells" just magically happen in great numbers in areas where there happens to be fracking.

{/quote]

There are quite rare actually.

1) the jury is still out on whether fracking is a good thing or not.
2) Nobody ever said the government can't do anything right, occasionally they do get something right. It's just very infrequent, and at an incredibly high cost.

1. Since natural gas is displacing coal, US co2 emissions are dropping. That is a good thing right?

 

[BoberFett]

I thought fracking was destructive and evil? You Democrats need to get your stories straight.

Wait, I know how it works. As a product of private enterprise fracking is evil, but once you determine that the government is involved it's OK.

So transparent.

 

[FerrelGeek]

1. Since natural gas is displacing coal, US co2 emissions are dropping. That is a good thing right?

I'm no man-made global warming believer, but reducing emissions is still a good thing. Now tell that to China and India.

 

[Ventanni]

Fracking isn't inherently evil. Businesses will do anything they can legally get away with, and energy companies are no different. The core issue with hydraulic fracturing is that it contaminates local water supplies, and if done near a major watershed, this can lead to serious repercussions.

The simple fact is, when fracking is performed, you basically pump a few million gallons of water + the chemicals used into the ground. Unfortunately, not all of that water + chemicals used actually comes back up. The remaining fluid is absorbed into the rock shale, which is what leads to the contamination. Many of these chemicals are highly toxic, and as with any water contamination issue, it's always far less expensive to prevent water contamination than it is to go back and clean it.

Mind you, this pumping of a few million gallons of water + chemicals into the ground can occur multiple times per well, adding to local water contamination levels.

But as with all energy, there's always a price:

Nuclear - Very expensive, public stigmatism
Coal - Dirty, local health risk
Wind - Inconsistent power generation, eyesore, threat to local avian population
Natural Gas - Contaminates local water supplies, toxic to environment
Solar - Expensive, manufacturing of materials not always eco-friendly
Oil - It be runnin' out, mon!

Fact is, if we want to drive our cars and turn on our air conditioners, we're going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere.

 

[ElFenix]

which involves adding chemicals to water to increase the fluid flow,

like... soap?

 

[Genx87]

Even if we took the OP at his word. I am failing to see where we are energy independent.

 

[Fern]

Big government responsible for the US being energy independent in the next decade or so? Why yes. Yes, it is.

Would this have happened under the Tea Party? Why no, no it wouldn't.

Just heard a lecture on the history of fracking. Turns out it was Big Government who put up most of the money for its development.

While it was a two hour lecture and I can't remember a lot of the details I did look it up.

Back in 1947 Halliburton experimented with it. It didn't increase yields so they got a patent on a technique and dropped it.

In the late 1970's the Eastern Gas Shales Project, a set of dozens of public-private hydro-fracturing pilot demonstration projects. During the same period, the Gas Research Institute, a gas industry research consortium, received approval for research and funding from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.[19] In 1977, the Department of Energy pioneered massive hydraulic fracturing in tight sandstone formations. In 1997, based on earlier techniques used by Union Pacific Resources, now part of Anadarko Petroleum Corporation, Mitchell Energy, now part of Devon Energy, developed the hydraulic fracturing technique known as "slickwater fracturing" which involves adding chemicals to water to increase the fluid flow, that made the shale gas extraction economical

Yes, big government to the rescue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracking#History

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/topogeo/econresource/oilandgas/marcellus/marcellus_egsp/index.htm

http://www.em.doe.gov/bemr/bemrsites/metc.aspx

Looks the only successful effort was the one in 1997 that I bolded, and I don't see any govt involvement there.

Oh, and looks like the evil Halliburton invented it.

As far as crediting the federal govt with energy independence - you cannot be serious? The govt is trying to shut down fracking.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Since they began fracking near this man's house, along with plenty of others, he is able to light the water coming out of his sink on fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ApZkNsXfJE
[/url]

If that's some guy's house, it's the strangest damn house I've ever seen. Looks like kitchen type stuff set up in a large concrete floor commercial building. When they first walk up to the sink notice the surroundings.

Also, there's far too many redundant kitchen cabinets and appliances to be in a house.

Also, for you city boys, methane gas from a water well is not rare. It occurs in a number of areas in the country, most of which do not have fracking. You simply vent the well and all is OK.

http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/VAiWebDocs/WSCDocs/Methane_Gas_and_Groundwater_Revised_0311.pdf

Fern

 

[Wreckem]

Yeah, it just so happens that these "bad wells" just magically happen in great numbers in areas where there happens to be fracking.

1) the jury is still out on whether fracking is a good thing or not.
2) Nobody ever said the government can't do anything right, occasionally they do get something right. It's just very infrequent, and at an incredibly high cost.

To date, there is not a single proven instance of frac'ing leading to ground water contamination.

 

[Wreckem]

If that's some guy's house, it's the strangest damn house I've ever seen. Looks like kitchen type stuff set up in a large concrete floor commercial building. When they first walk up to the sink notice the surroundings.

Also, there's far too many redundant kitchen cabinets and appliances to be in a house.

Also, for you city boys, methane gas from a water well is not rare. It occurs in a number of areas in the country, most of which do not have fracking. You simply vent the well and all is OK.

http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/VAiWebDocs/WSCDocs/Methane_Gas_and_Groundwater_Revised_0311.pdf

Fern

The documentary it was a part of(Gasland) was thoroughly debunked.

Biggest problems with frac'ing are frac'ing sites cause a lot of economic impact states have to pick up the tab for(road destruction).

Waste water injection sites might not be the best idea. However, waste water injection sites didnt start because of frac'ing, and frac'ing waste water isn't the only thing we dispose of via waste water injection sites.

 

[PokerGuy]

To date, there is not a single proven instance of frac'ing leading to ground water contamination.

The EPA begs to differ: http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/12/how-the-epa-linked-fracking-to-contaminated-well-water/

You can choose to believe that fracking is perfectly safe if you'd like, but I've seen enough to believe otherwise. Those instances of those same toxic chemicals used in fracking magically showing up for the first time in a water table right after they started fracking in the area are just a biiiiiig coincidence. Sorry, I don't buy it.

That doesn't mean the practice should be banned outright, but it should be carefully studied before going full steam ahead. The damage done could be very long term and very difficult to reverse.

 

[Wreckem]

The EPA begs to differ: http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/12/how-the-epa-linked-fracking-to-contaminated-well-water/

You can choose to believe that fracking is perfectly safe if you'd like, but I've seen enough to believe otherwise. Those instances of those same toxic chemicals used in fracking magically showing up for the first time in a water table right after they started fracking in the area are just a biiiiiig coincidence. Sorry, I don't buy it.

That doesn't mean the practice should be banned outright, but it should be carefully studied before going full steam ahead. The damage done could be very long term and very difficult to reverse.

That study is still being debated because if you note, the EPA reaches a conclusion without actually proving it. They are making an assumption. They even state they need further studys. But you will note, all the private wells they tested were NOT contaminated. If frac'ing did cause contamintation, they are also unable to say if traditional development had occurred it would not have caused contamination.

FYI, there are over 2million frac'ed wells in the US. Not a single private well near any of the frac'ed have shown to be contaminated. Only two deep water wells drilled into a known natural gas field has shown contamination.

Should frac'ing be exempt from the Safe Drinking Water Act. Probably not. Is frac'ing evil causing rampant contamination like some like to claim No, it is not.

Should there be better regulation of frac'ing. Yes. Should it be stopped. No. Should it be used on all shale formations? Probably not because not all are deep enough or have the same amount of impermeable rock above them. In the end, if there is a link to frac'ing and ground water contamination, it won't be the frac'ing, it will be because of poor geology work, as a properly frac'ed site should never lead to contamination. There are likely sites out there that should not be developed by either traditional means or by frac'ing.

Waste water injection sites are an entirely different issue and they aren't just used for frac'ing. They are much more likely to cause ground water contamination than frac'ing.

That said, the US is sitting on the worlds largest energy supply and it is relatively untapped. Safely developing it is important, but we need to continue to develop it because it is our future.

 

[Wreckem]

like... soap?

and a bean powder which is the principle ingredient in bubble gum.

And any toxic chemical used in frac'ing, that were probably used before most O&G states pass mandatory disclosure laws, have also likely been used for decades on traditional wells during secondary/tertiary phases.