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End of SETI??

B

barbary

Senior member
So for the last 6 months I have been returning to see if there is going to be an end to SETI. I see now that it is possible to migrate over to this Bonic. What are everyones thoughts on this. I assume that WU's for Classic SETI do nothing for our Bonic team score???

What is everyones feeling about this?? If were going to move should we not all move as a team otherwise we risk becoming poor in both stats.

Personaly I have never like these systems that give you "credit" rather than real numbers for work done.

Are most people going BONIC?? Or maybe I should just move to a new DC project.

What other DC project is like SETI in terms of processing??
 
I guess most other DC projects are like SETI 1 in terms of processing: u get WUs, u crunch them, u get score.

I personally don't like the idea of BOINC and storing my info on a central server as well as that credit system and thus I won't try BOINC at all. I guess that races are almost impossible with BOINC 'cause you don't get instant score for your work, in fact it can take quite a while. So the final race scores would be delayed for ages.

From what I can tell from this forum many ppl will not switch to BOINC but finish SETI 1 and get good score and then either stop DC completly or move to another DC.

🙂


edit: typo
 
You'll show up with "SETI@home classic workunits" #####, in BOINC, but that's all. This score is atleast currently from 14. May, and unsure if this will be updated later.

91 in the team has currently got credit in BOINC, and the team is currently #8.

As for score, AFAIK seti classic is the only project with "1 wu = 1 score", and also the ony project with instant personal score. All projects has delayed team-score and such.
In classic the difference between v3.03 & v3.08 is already 10%, add to this AR-differences, "turbo-wu" finnishing after 1 minute, not to mention v3.00.

BOINC on the other hand is multi-project so a "1 wu = 1 score" is totally useless from the beginning. Also, BOINC only gives credit if result passes the validation, in seti this currently is only then 3 different get the same result. The credit is the average after the top/bottom-claimed score is removed (so middle), and is dependent on crunch-time & benchmark. Of course the benchmark isn't the best and can be improved, but still it's much better than the old classic score-method.
Also, the cheaters either returning the same result more than once or sharing with "friends" will not get extra credit. Someone that's overclocked too much and therefore only returns garbage will not get creditet for this garbage either.

Granted races is much more difficult to run, but getting rid of the cheaters is for me much more important. 🙂

If you don't want your machine-info to show up, change the seti-specific preference "Should SETI@home show your computers on its web site?" to no.
As for what info is actually stored, no idea, but my guess is windowsupdate and the like probably has much more detailed info. Even then you're browsing to this forum you're giving out info about ip, os, browser and more... BOINC on the other hand is in most cases only saving your internal lan-ip, and someone stealing this info doesn't have any benefit to know I'm using 192.168.0.1, nor any benefit of knowing the cpu nor how much memory...
Oh, and if don't mis-remembers, all projects except folding@home I've tried stores the email-address...


If you're not currently hand-feeding wu to your machines, you can run BOINC. But since the core-client probably will be upgraded fairly often don't recommend installing on machines seldomly accessible for now.
For the rest, the ability of running seti or predictor or astropulse or climateprediction or... ok, currently only the 2 first is up and running, but this multi-project-capability is a great selling-point for BOINC.

Specific for seti, in "classic" all wu crunched has now on average been crunched 7.01 times, while in BOINC Berkeley only needs 3 results/wu. So for someone not only interested in the score this is a great science-selling-point for the BOINC-version...

Of course other projects can interest you more than seti, or you're currently aiming for a milestone or making sure BBR doesn't get past at the end. 🙂
 
Not all DC projects are the same. Many like UD give credit and I understand why they do it it's just not my cuppa tea.

Whats everyone else in SETI Classic doing???
 
Originally posted by: Rattledagger
As for score, AFAIK seti classic is the only project with "1 wu = 1 score", and also the ony project with instant personal score. All projects has delayed team-score and such.
Click to expand...

Lifemapper for example is "1 WU = 1 score" as well!

The cheaters either returning the same result more than once or sharing with "friends" will not get extra credit. Someone that's overclocked too much and therefore only returns garbage will not get creditet for this garbage either.
Click to expand...

Never thought about that, but that indeed is a good point for BOINC.

Granted races is much more difficult to run, but getting rid of the cheaters is for me much more important. 🙂
Click to expand...

😉

Oh, and if don't mis-remembers, all projects except folding@home I've tried stores the email-address...
Click to expand...

DPAD doesn't

Specific for seti, in "classic" all wu crunched has now on average been crunched 7.01 times, while in BOINC Berkeley only needs 3 results/wu. So for someone not only interested in the score this is a great science-selling-point for the BOINC-version...
Click to expand...

That sounds good as well, but somehow I'm not sure if it's true. I don't think that Berkely thought about crunching each WU about 7 times when they started SETI I and yet they did it. So I assume that they can also just "relaunch" BOINC WUs even though they have already been varified just to keep people crunching.
 
Hey barbary!

Long time no see! I am trying to stay with SETI Classic to maintain my position in th top 500. But, I am slowly slipping. With David gone and having problems with keeping my fleet running while I am away, I am slowly loosing ground.

I WISH we knew when SETI I will end. So, I am just taking it a week at a time.

I have tried BOINC, but have always had problems with it. Typically I would not get WUs. I will likely try it again on another machine. I don't really mind the scoring method if what I understand is corrent: 1. Cheating will be gone and 2. Your points stay with a team when you switch teams.

I hope you find what you are looking for!
 
Originally posted by: barbary
Whats everyone else in SETI Classic doing???
Click to expand...
Well' i can't speak for everyone but i'm sticking with "Classic" till they stop sending out WU's. With all the recent departures from the TeAm, BBR is that much closer so we'll try to hold them off.

Then i'm going to try some other projects for awhile, because i've been wanting to for awhile & to help out some of the teams that helped us out against BBR.



Nice to see you around again 🙂
 
Berkeley recommends you're attacking to atleast 1 other project, so you'll keep on crunching even then seti is down. Therefore there shouldn't be a reason to re-running wu if they're for the moment out of work.
Besides, then Parkes & the new multi-beam recorder at Arecibo is up and running, they'll record much more data. Also, Astropulse should be a re-crunch of data from the old seti-tapes so their biggest problem for some time will probably be distributing the wu.

If lifemapper has constant-length wu it will work, but still it's a mapping of 1 wu = 1 score so score-based. 😉
Don't remember the mapping in distributed folding, but different wu/client-releases has markedly different crunch-times so another with terrible crediting.
RC-64 or whatever can probably successfully use the mapping 1 key tested = 1 score since this should be constant crunch-time.

As for email, maybe some others also doesn't need you to register, but there shouldn't be a large difficulty using hotmail or something similar and change the address after some months.


Seti is currently upgrading the servers to v3.20 and is down. Also, they're doing optimizations & bug-fixes so therefore can be down for some time. But if you're got a permanent connection a cache-setting of 1-2 days should keep the machines crunching. 😉

BTW, remember the url to type into the client for the project now is http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/
 
Hey Guys I am still about.

So I think I'll do the same and stick to Seti classic till they stop sending out WU's.

Is there a difference between Distributed Folding and Folding @ Home???

So if you want to gain my 3 computers (Oh how the mighty have fallen) make your case below.

"I want to see you fighting for your parents Love. Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight"
- Homer Simpson
 
If you don't want your machine-info to show up, change the seti-specific preference "Should SETI@home show your computers on its web site?" to no.
Click to expand...

Just make sure to do it before you start processing and connect. I didn't know about the "hide" the PC info until after I started. Even though I set it to not show, my PC info is there. 🙁
 
Actually I was beta testing Astropulse and though I knew it was beta and though I knew that my points won't count I never felt good about BOINC ... the style ... the technique ... I can't tell what it is. Maybe it's just a feeling in my guts, dunno!
 
Hi barbary🙂

Myself I'm sticking to S@H1 to the end ,& I hope most others do too otherwise we risk BBR passing us right at the end which would be a damn shame🙁.And I'm sure their isn't much time left in S@H1

Btw after S@H1 ends I shall be crunching DPAD on my main rig for at least a few months ,maybe longer.That's a cool project btw🙂
My 2nd rig will be switched S@H2 BOINC
My work fleet will stop crunching completely as I have to 'hand feed' them WUs (via a flashdrive) & there's no replacement for SETIQ so far🙁 (that'll be a total of 2.1GHz gone).
My friends rigs I will probably switch to S@H2 BOINC too.

RattleDagger
What's the maximium cache size in days can you set for BOINC?
 
After running BOINC for the last 24 hours on 3 computers, and not being able to upload any work, I've deleted it off my machines. I'll wait for the official first release, I guess. Giong back to SETI driver and Distributed Folding...
 
Predictor@home, folding@home, distributed folding is AFAIK different ways to do more or less the same job... And hopefully folding@home will soon make a BOINC-client also. 😉

As for max cache-size, you can set thatever size you wants, but if they haven't overlooked something the scheduler shouldn't give you more work than you can complete before the deadline, so in seti this is currently 14 days.
BTW, predictor@home is currently running some 1-days deadline-wu...


RaySun2Be, your machine-listing should show up as "hidden" if you've selected this option... On top-computer-page and such the machines will show up as "anonymous".
Since the top_*-pages is cached for 12 hours, this most likely will not happen immediately, but on next stats-update they're hidden.
Of course if you logs into your account your own machines will show up, but most of this info is already known to you beforehand. 😉


kmmatney, SETI@home for BOINC is very much up and running, but currently they're upgrading the servers to v3.20 and therefore they're offline.
 
OK, I'm still running Boinc on one machine, just to try it longer. I'm pretty dissapointed by the GUI progam though - it does not have enough features. There is no direct link to your stats, or to your preferences. It's set to "Run based on Preferences", however I have no clue how to change these preferences. I did set them once, when I first downloaded BOINC, and now I don't know how to get back to them. There's not even a link to the BOINC site in the GUI program (not that the BOINC site is actually useful). I had to use google to find it. Maybe I'm clueless, but my beginning experience in BOINC has not been good. Maybe I just started at a bad time, when the SETI servers are down, but I don't know how to change my cache preferences.
 
There's a link to the project then right-clicking under the "project"-tab in the gui, but in seti you currently must follow another link to reach the BOINC-pages. Then "classic" ends it should be a direct-link...
Current direct-link to the seti-pages are http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/

Your stats & preferences is under "Your Account" on the seti@home-boinc-site.
Direct-link is http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/home.php

As for link to BOINC, click on the "powered by BOINC"-logo on the seti@home-site.
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/
 
Well for me when seti is done so am I. Probably not the place for this but I have never liked the concept of the so called mini teams within team anandtech. I dont feel that it fosters competition.
In fact it really does not give credit to those individuals that are in the mini teams. I dont think that some that join these mini teams dontrealize this until they have joined and then feel committed to that team so they either dont receive the credit they deserve (as indivudals) so they either quit or go somewhere else. The stats are so scewed towards the large mini teams that a guy with 1 or 2 machines will never see even the top 200 even though they have been active since the beginning.
I have shut down all but one of my machines because of the heat but will stay until seti is over.

Bleep
 
Originally posted by: barbary
Hey Guys I am still about.

So I think I'll do the same and stick to Seti classic till they stop sending out WU's.

Is there a difference between Distributed Folding and Folding @ Home???

So if you want to gain my 3 computers (Oh how the mighty have fallen) make your case below.

"I want to see you fighting for your parents Love. Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight, Fight"
- Homer Simpson
Click to expand...

I don't know about Distributed Folding, but Folding @ Home does basic research and looks for cures for Alzheimers Disease, Parkinsons Disease, ALS, and others.

The WUs simulate proteins forming. There are many different proteins, with differing amounts of atoms. So the WUs take varying lengths of time to finish. Each protein project WU is assigned a number of points according to how long it took on a benchmark machine. There may be small differences in time to completion within each project.
 
I will be with SETI 1 until the end. After that I will move most of my machines over to SETI BOINC. I will probably expand my horizons and try out some of the other DC projects with one or two machines.
 
I have shut down every computer I had a work and have 2 machines left at home running seti, the other 3 are with F@H. Once Seti1 is over I will probably set up one of those pc's for BOINC and will probably set one up for another project.

The problem is I feel like there was no "climax" to all this. We had the race with BBR to take them down before the "end" and we have done that, but now there seems like no end in sight. I have hit the 50k mark and will never be able to hit that 100k so I just feel a little flat about the while thing. There was huge exitment, and now everything is just blah!
 
Originally posted by: Bleep
Well for me when seti is done so am I. Probably not the place for this but I have never liked the concept of the so called mini teams within team anandtech. I dont feel that it fosters competition.
In fact it really does not give credit to those individuals that are in the mini teams. I dont think that some that join these mini teams dontrealize this until they have joined and then feel committed to that team so they either dont receive the credit they deserve (as indivudals) so they either quit or go somewhere else. The stats are so scewed towards the large mini teams that a guy with 1 or 2 machines will never see even the top 200 even though they have been active since the beginning.
I have shut down all but one of my machines because of the heat but will stay until seti is over.

Bleep
Click to expand...

The competition is between the miniteams as well as between individuals & yes it does foster competition.
I can't see how a person would not realise that joining a mini team would inevitabley mean group credit instead of personal credit ,also many mini teams run SETIQ & therefore you can see individual stats🙂

With a big team,any big team ,the bigger guns & the mini teams are bound to dominate the top ,what do you expect?😕.Its a good thing not a bad thing ,it means the team does better overall.
The only way to stop that would be to kick out bigger members & restrict membership number! ,that would be ridiculous!.
With just 1 or 2 rigs your not going to hold much of a postion in virtually any established team ,that doesn't matter though ,the output is still important.
Remember most of the bigger teams production including TA have a very large proportion of their output produced by the smaller members ,there's just a lot more of them🙂

Btw not forgetting ,you don't have to own more than 2 rigs to have a mini fleet ,recruite your family & friends🙂 ,I have 😉

Mofunk
I think we can bet this time that the end is not far now,but I know what you mean,we are sort of in an anti-climatic period atm😉

[edit]sorry guys for going OT😱)
 
Originally posted by: Bleep
. The stats are so scewed towards the large mini teams that a guy with 1 or 2 machines will never see even the top 200 even though they have been active since the beginning.
I have shut down all but one of my machines because of the heat but will stay until seti is over.

Bleep
Click to expand...

Do you mean overall in SETI or in Team ANandtech. I'm top 35 Ithink and I only have a few machines.
 
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