Employer wants proof of employment by paystub/W2

[spidey07]

I generally agree with this BUT,

If you want to work for that company, you do what they require. What's so hard about this?

If the company is lame enough to require your previous salary, then either oblige or pass on the job. You can't tell them what to do, nor can they tell you.

Take it or leave it.

/thread

In the world of business it is very bad ethics to ask what a competitor is paying or what their price/bid is. For public bids it's downright illegal. This is the same concept - the company is bidding for your services. I consider it unethical for them to ask what my current customer is paying me.

 

[Zeze]

In the world of business it is very bad ethics to ask what a competitor is paying or what their price/bid is. For public bids it's downright illegal. This is the same concept - the company is bidding for your services. I consider it unethical for them to ask what my current customer is paying me.

So what does this have to do with what I said? Unethical or not, it happens. I see it very often in job postings. And please cite where it says is illegal.

Again, I'm with you. I never reveal my salary. But in the real world, if the company wants verification and your only choice is that job? Suck it up and do it OR pass on it.

What else you gonna do? Report the company or complain? Yea, that'll get them to hire you.

 

[Phoenix86]

So what does this have to do with what I said? Unethical or not, it happens. I see it very often in job postings. And please cite where it says is illegal.

Again, I'm with you. I never reveal my salary. But in the real world, if the company wants verification and your only choice is that job? Suck it up and do it OR pass on it.

What else you gonna do? Report the company or complain? Yea, that'll get them to hire you.

In an ideal word you say fuck'em. Ask the interviewer for their last paystub in reply. Let the hiring manager know you have passed on the opportunity and that you couldn't see yourself working for a company with low ethical standards in their HR process.

Of course, most people do not have that option in the current market and employers know this. That means in the end you are left with the decision to cough up the goods or take another job. It's really is that simple.

 

[Rage187]

Well, tell them you had gotten a raise since the last time you filed taxes. It hadn't made it on to your W2 yet.

 

[Zeze]

In an ideal word you say fuck'em. Ask the interviewer for their last paystub in reply. Let the hiring manager know you have passed on the opportunity and that you couldn't see yourself working for a company with low ethical standards in their HR process.

Of course, most people do not have that option in the current market and employers know this. That means in the end you are left with the decision to cough up the goods or take another job. It's really is that simple.

Thank you. What's not to get?

 

[ballmode]

Here's what I'm doing:

I gave them a copy of my last pay stub with my pay stats on it blacked out.
I've already been working for a week and really its a crappy job, but its a job.

I somehow wish I could go back on orders as I'm currently Air Guard.
They hired me after I passed the drug test and were waiting on the last employer (I didn't know which one but assumed military), and since everything passed within the past 5 years except since I joined the military they hired me. But, they wanted to still get proof of military.

 

[Gibson486]

So what does this have to do with what I said? Unethical or not, it happens. I see it very often in job postings. And please cite where it says is illegal.

Again, I'm with you. I never reveal my salary. But in the real world, if the company wants verification and your only choice is that job? Suck it up and do it OR pass on it.

What else you gonna do? Report the company or complain? Yea, that'll get them to hire you.

For public bid projects, it is illegal to ask what a competitor's bid was or to bid with knowledge of what a competitor's bid was. I am not sure what he is getting at, though. This is a private job and on private bid projects, you can ask what the lowest bid was. Further more, this isn't a bid project, it's a job with benefits and everything.

 

[Bignate603]

You NEVER, EVER tell a prospective employer what you make. It is none of their business and has zero bearing on what your pay for the position should be.

It's the worst mistake you can make in your career.

I can think of plenty of worse mistakes.

Anyways, I can think of a reason why it would be advantageous to say what you make. Right now I'm trying to find a job. I'm currently employed and am making noticeably more than the average person with my degree and number of years experience because I'm pretty good at what I do. Multiple times in interviews I've been asked how much I make and/or what my expected salary range is. When I say "I make $XX and expect something around $XX" it instantly weeds out the jobs that don't want to pay for me. The ones that can't afford me don't contact me again and the ones that do contact me again are serious about giving me a top notch salary for my industry. It saves me from going round and round with them when I'm way outside the range they're looking for.

 

[spidey07]

I can think of plenty of worse mistakes.

Anyways, I can think of a reason why it would be advantageous to say what you make. Right now I'm trying to find a job. I'm currently employed and am making noticeably more than the average person with my degree and number of years experience because I'm pretty good at what I do. Multiple times in interviews I've been asked how much I make and/or what my expected salary range is. When I say "I make $XX and expect something around $XX" it instantly weeds out the jobs that don't want to pay for me. The ones that can't afford me don't contact me again and the ones that do contact me again are serious about giving me a top notch salary for my industry. It saves me from going round and round with them when I'm way outside the range they're looking for.

You also need to read the book I mentioned. The point is to bait them with your skills, experience, etc and then make them want you no matter what the cost.

The jobs of the last 10 years or so were all "we will create a position for you". The job you are interviewing for and it's pay scale are not the job you are applying for.

That you think it's a top notch salary for your industry makes me think you don't truly know what you're worth.

But to each his own. The point isn't to have "top notch salary for my industry", it's to be paid what you are worth or more. You seem confident, so go make more. Do not compare yourself to your industry or peers, that will only make one complacent.

You can look at any industry, any position and you will find people doing the exact same job but one is making twice what the other is.

Nothing good will ever come from naming a number first, nothing. The only good is if you name some outrageous price and they say "GREAT! When can you start?" You just lost the game as you could have gotten more. It's all just one big game.

 

[Joepublic2]

Nobody has a right to know how much money you make, especially if it weakens your ability to bargain for a better compensation package later. I would get my most recent pay slips and black out everything except the bare minimum needed to confirm my employment to send the message that I don't respond well to intimidation (if it is indeed a move to intimidate you into revealing more information than is required by law/their corp hiring process).

 

[Phokus]

In the world of business it is very bad ethics to ask what a competitor is paying or what their price/bid is. For public bids it's downright illegal. This is the same concept - the company is bidding for your services. I consider it unethical for them to ask what my current customer is paying me.

STFU spidey, this is a capitalist society, companies can tell you to bend over and take it up the pooper and if you don't like it, apply for a job somewhere else (is this how being a douchebag republican works?)

 

[spidey07]

STFU spidey, this is a capitalist society, companies can tell you to bend over and take it up the pooper and if you don't like it, apply for a job somewhere else (is this how being a douchebag republican works?)

Yes it is. As such I can bid my services to the highest payer who is wiiling to a premium. embrace the game, don't hate it.

You know that low bids are normally thrown out because people actually want to pay more for something? Folks think paying more is better. Why not use that to your advantage?

I've explained the game. Play it.

 

[dr150]

FWIW, I'm an expert in this game (at least I think I am from my results--Goldman Sachs, Boston Consulting, etc).

Regardless, if what you told them and it doesn't mesh up....no worries. If they think you're qualified and you aced the interviews, then you should get the job regardless....unless they're tight bunghole douches.

Indeed, black out the info. Start from there. But acknowledge you're not dealing from a position of power. If HR wants to grab your balls, you'll have to provide the goods.

Hopefully, HR will be satisfied and bury your info. into the wanna hire stack. Maybe they just want proof of employment. Who knows. Black it out and take it from there.

And IF you want to scale up your salary and title quickly, never stay at ONE job/company for more than 1.5-2 years. Anything longer than that and you're cutting into your lifetime pay. It's either being the ambitious type OR finding HARMONY in the right job--you're call--and both are correct depending on your goal profile.

Good Luck and don't give a shit either way. PLAY the GAME until you WIN!! :thumbsup:

 

[Phokus]

Yes it is. As such I can bid my services to the highest payer who is wiiling to a premium. embrace the game, don't hate it.

You know that low bids are normally thrown out because people actually want to pay more for something? Folks think paying more is better. Why not use that to your advantage?

I've explained the game. Play it.

I'm laughing at your assertion that asking a question is 'bad ethics', coming from someone like you. Corporations don't give a shit about anyone's privacy bitch, bend over and take it.

 

[slayer202]

I haven't read the thread, but it's not a separate company doing the background check?

 

[Bignate603]

You can look at any industry, any position and you will find people doing the exact same job but one is making twice what the other is.

No, you won't. There is a salary range but for the vast majority of jobs it is nowhere near that big for the same job. Ever hear of pay bands? Most big companies have them. There is a maximum and a minimum that they will pay for jobs within each band. When you take a job everybody with that title will be stuck in the same band and while there can be noticeable differences in compensation it won't be anywhere near double.

Nothing good will ever come from naming a number first, nothing. The only good is if you name some outrageous price and they say "GREAT! When can you start?" You just lost the game as you could have gotten more. It's all just one big game.

I tried it that way. All I was getting was offers well below what I currently make. They were good offers compared to what is typical for my industry, but not as good as what I make now. I ended up having to say that their offer was worse than my current compensation.

When you're already above what's normal people can make you an offer that they think is very attractive and still have it fall short of your current compensation.

 

[Bignate603]

Yes it is. As such I can bid my services to the highest payer who is wiiling to a premium. embrace the game, don't hate it.

You know that low bids are normally thrown out because people actually want to pay more for something? Folks think paying more is better. Why not use that to your advantage?

I've explained the game. Play it.

I seriously doubt you're doing as well at "the game" as you think you are.

 

[alkemyst]

You guys are funny with your absolutes. They are general guides but there are plenty of specific situations where the strategy fails.

You CONSTANTLY promote HR DOGMA.

We get it, you want your job to be easier.

It's not what really works in real-life for most that want to get ahead.

In your perfect world, people would start with a company at 22-23 and retire with a 100% pension at 50-60, never worrying about losing their job unless they majorly screwed up and never having to chase a paycheck.

 

[spidey07]

No, you won't. There is a salary range but for the vast majority of jobs it is nowhere near that big for the same job. Ever hear of pay bands? Most big companies have them. There is a maximum and a minimum that they will pay for jobs within each band. When you take a job everybody with that title will be stuck in the same band and while there can be noticeable differences in compensation it won't be anywhere near double.



I tried it that way. All I was getting was offers well below what I currently make. They were good offers compared to what is typical for my industry, but not as good as what I make now. I ended up having to say that their offer was worse than my current compensation.

When you're already above what's normal people can make you an offer that they think is very attractive and still have it fall short of your current compensation.

Right, which is why you have them create a position for you that is at a higher pay grade. If they really want you, they'll make it happen. And even with pay grades you can have people doing the same job but different grades. That is the whole reason you never give a number first.

 

[waggy]

Actually SPidey is giving really good advice. while his advice would be perfect in a good economy t here is no reason to not listen or as he said "play the game" and he is right. it is a game. the better you know it and play the better off you are.

 

[Bignate603]

Right, which is why you have them create a position for you that is at a higher pay grade. If they really want you, they'll make it happen. And even with pay grades you can have people doing the same job but different grades. That is the whole reason you never give a number first.

Good luck with that at a big company. You might jump up one level by negotiating but you're not going to be doubling your income.

 

[spidey07]

Good luck with that at a big company. You might jump up one level by negotiating but you're not going to be doubling your income.

Umm, look at the compensation for vp or director level. Its not unusual for one to be making double of the same level. I get your point but you're not getting mine. Mine comes from direct personal experience. It's not unusual either to get the grade bumped 2-3, that's the point about "they will create a position for you". Hell 15 years ago people were surprised to be working right next to me but I was 3 grade levels above them but doing the same job.

Yet another reason you don't tell your salary or grade level to anybody. Or name a number first.

 

[Bignate603]

Umm, look at the compensation for vp or director level. Its not unusual for one to be making double of the same level. I get your point bit you're not getting mine. Mine comes from direct personal experience.

I understand what point you are trying to make, and I'm saying that for all but some very specific jobs it's completely bogus.

 

[spidey07]

I understand what point you are trying to make, and I'm saying that for all but some very specific jobs it's completely bogus.

My experience at staff, manager and director level says otherwise. This is direct personal experience from my career and hiring - I can and will make a position for somebody I really want. If you're good, the company WILL create a position for you.

Good people are incredibly hard to find, we've been looking for some good IT consultants and we can't fill the positions or find good people. If the right person came along we'd pay them just about anything they wanted, but if they name their number first then that's EXACTLY what the offer will be. Little did they know they could have had 50K+ more a year if they didn't name a number first.

 

[guyver01]

what's so hard about redacting the info you dont want them to know?

i swear, sometimes you people turn the simplest issue into a full blown catastrophe