"emission leak (small)"?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Rio Rebel, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. Rio Rebel

    Rio Rebel Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member

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    My "check engine" light is on, and the computer gives a message of "emission leak (small)" or something like that. I took it to a Firestone service station 3 times, and they keep suggesting new things that don't work (a split vacuum hose, replaced gas cap, etc.)

    Are there any other solutions that are either cheap or likely to fix it? It doesn't affect the operation of the car, as far as I can tell. I just had the coils replaced (all of them) because it was running rough, and thought that fixed it, but apparently not.

    Suggestions?
     
  2. iamwiz82

    iamwiz82 Lifer

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    What kind of car? Was the code P0442?
     
  3. Gillbot

    Gillbot Lifer

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    The make/model will help with diagnosis.
     
  4. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    emission or evap?
     
  5. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    I'm guessing evap. My experience below.

    I had a similar message "evaporative system leak (small)" a few weeks ago. The hoses that run around the engine compartment and around the gas tank (not plastic fuel lines but rather rubber evap hoses) had small spits near the barb ends that they connected to. The sales person at Advanced walked out, looked at the hoses and grabbed a cutter and cut the ends off and replaced them. I reset the code and it's not been back since (it came back 2 times before then).
     
  6. Aimster

    Aimster Lifer

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    I have code P044

    Emission Evap Code.

    I reset it. My gas cap wire was bent by the cap.

    If it comes back then you might have a serious problem. Just reset it. Probably gas gap.
     
  7. Rio Rebel

    Rio Rebel Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member

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    Chrysler 300m (2001). The code is P0442
     
  8. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    That's an evap leak. Most likely a splt end on one of your rubber evap hoses. You'll have several under the hood (simple rubber, no nylon cords or hard plastic lines, just simple rubber) and a few around the gas tank (most likely). Look for splits at the ends of the lines. If there, pull the line off and cut just enough off to get past the split. You could also buy new hoses. I was told that Chrysler/Dodge charges between $100 and $200 to fix this.

    Also, check your gas cap. That's also a known cause. If the seal is bad or not sealing tightly, a small evap leak may occur. You can wipe a little lightweight oil on the seal and try again or buy a gas cap.

     
  9. Rio Rebel

    Rio Rebel Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member

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    Thanks for the replies.

    I doubt it's the gas cap - I bought a new one already. Firestone charged me about 100 bucks to "diagnose" the problem. The first time, they said it was a vacuum hose and they fixed it. When it came on a couple weeks later, they said it was the gas cap and I bought a new (overpriced) one. After that, I started developing an issue with it running rough (which I believe was completely unrelated), and took it in and had the coils replaced. That fixed the problem with the engine, but about a month later the light came back with the same error message.

    I'll check out those evap hoses. Where are they generally located, and how big are they?
     
  10. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    On my wife's Durango, there was one, about 1/2" in diameter that went toward the back center under the hood and was connected near the throttle body. It went from center to the right and paired up with another evap hose and both went under the battery. There was one (or two) little formed hoses underneath the vehicle near the gas tank. On your car, it may vary. Just look for split ends near the barbed end (bulged end). If you find a split (running parallel of the body of the hose), cut it off and try again.
     
  11. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    Symptom List:
    P0442-EVAP LEAK MONITOR MEDIUM (0.040) LEAK DETECTED
    P0455-EVAP LEAK MONITOR LARGE LEAK DETECTED
    P0456-EVAP LEAK MONITOR SMALL (.020) LEAK DETECTED
    Test Note: All symptoms listed above are diagnosed using the same tests.
    The title for the tests will be P0442-EVAP LEAK MONITOR
    MEDIUM (0.040) LEAK DETECTED.
    When Monitored and Set Condition:
    P0442-EVAP LEAK MONITOR MEDIUM (0.040) LEAK DETECTED
    When Monitored: Immediately after a cold start, with battery/ambient temperature
    between 40° F and 90° F and coolant temperature within 10° F of battery/ambient.
    Set Condition: If there is a leak larger than 0.0409 and smaller than 0.0809 in the
    evaporative system.
    P0455-EVAP LEAK MONITOR LARGE LEAK DETECTED
    When Monitored: Immediately after a cold start, with battery/ambient temperature
    between 40° F and 90° F and coolant temperature within 10° F of battery/ambient.
    Set Condition: There is a leak larger than 0.0809 in the evaporative system.
    P0456-EVAP LEAK MONITOR SMALL (.020) LEAK DETECTED
    When Monitored: Immediately after a cold start, with battery/ambient temperature
    between 40° F and 90° F and coolant temperature within 10° F of battery/ambient.
    Set Condition: There is a leak larger than 0.0209 and smaller than 0.0409 in the
    evaporative system.
    POSSIBLE CAUSES
    LEAK AT GAS CAP
    VEHICLE HISTORY AND SERVICE BULLETIN INVESTIGATION
    VISUAL AND PHYSICAL INSPECTION
    VERIFY EVAPORATIVE EMISSION SYSTEM LEAK
    EVAP PURGE SOLENOID OPERATION
    INTERMITTENT LDP MONITOR FAILURE
    EVAPORATIVE EMISSION LEAK DETECTION
    GAS CAP
    LDP COMPONENT LEAK
     
  12. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    P0442-EVAP LEAK MONITOR MEDIUM (0.040) LEAK DETECTED ?
    ACTION APPLICABILITY
    1 Start by reading PCM DTC(s) and record the related Freeze Frame data if any
    DTC(s) are present.
    Check the vehicle repair history.
    If the vehicle has a repair history that pertains to the customer?s current complaint,
    review the repair.
    Inspect the vehicle for any aftermarket accessories that may have been installed
    incorrectly.
    Check for any service bulletin(s) related to the customer?s complaint or DTC(s).
    If a service bulletin applies, follow the instructions per service bulletin.
    Did the service bulletin repair the customer?s complaint?
    All
    Yes ! Testing Complete.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    No ! Go To 2
    2 Note: A loose gas cap could have caused this DTC to set. Make sure gas cap
    is tight and in good condition. Make sure the gas cap meets OEM specifications.
    Ignition on, engine not running.
    With the DRBIIIt, read DTCs and record the related Freeze Frame data.
    Is the Good Trip Counter displayed and equal to zero?
    All
    Yes ! Go To 3
    No ! Go To 9
    3 Perform a visual and physical inspection of the entire Evaporative Emission system.
    Check for the following conditions:
    - Holes or cracks
    - Loose seal points
    - Evidence of damaged components
    - Incorrect routing of hoses and tubes
    - Fuel Cap gasket seal
    Were any of the above conditions found?
    All
    Yes ! Repair as necessary.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    No ! Go To 4
    160
    DRIVEABILITY - GAS
     
  13. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
    4 To continue testing you will need Miller Tool #8404 Evaporative Emission Leak
    Detector (EELD).
    WARNING: Keep lit cigarettes, sparks, flames, and other ignition sources
    away from the test area to prevent the ignition of explosive gases. Keep the
    test area well ventilated.
    NOTE: The fuel tank should have between 20% and 80% of fuel tank capacity
    to properly test the Evap system.
    Connect the red power lead of the EELD to the battery positive terminal and the
    black ground lead to battery negative terminal.
    NOTE: See Charts and Graph support material EELD Calibration Setup for
    an example.
    Block the vent hose of the EVAP Canister.
    Connect shop air to the EELD.
    Set the smoke/air control switch to AIR.
    Insert the tester?s AIR supply tip (clear hose) into the appropriate calibration orifice
    on the tester?s control panel (based on DTC leak size).
    Press the remote smoke/air start button.
    Position the red flag on the air flow meter so it is aligned with the indicator ball.
    When the calibration is complete, release the remote button. The EELD flow meter
    is now calibrated in liters per minute to the size leak indicated by the DTC set in the
    PCM.
    Install the service port adapter #8404-14 on the vehicle?s service port (if equipped) or
    install #8404-ADP service adaptor in the filter line.
    Connect the Air supply hose from the EELD to the service port (if equipped) or
    #8404-ADP in the filter line.
    Press the remote button to activate AIR flow.
    NOTE: Larger volume fuel tanks, lower fuel levels or if the vehicle is
    equipped with a Flow Management Valve may indicate high flow and will
    require 4 to 5 minutes to fill
    Compare the flow meter indicator ball reading to the red flag.
    ABOVE the red flag indicates a leak present.
    BELOW the red flag indicates a sealed system.
    Is the indicator ball above the red flag?
    All
    Yes ! Go To 5
    No ! Refer to the Freeze Frame data recorded in Step 1. If the data
    indicates that the vehicle was in motion when the DTC was set,
    verify that all hoses are properly connected. Test Complete.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
     
  14. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
    6 Remove the SMOKE supply tip (black hose) from the Service port (if equipped) or to
    the #8404-ADP adapter.
    Install gas cap adapter, Miller Tool #8382 (1/4 turn cap) or #6922 (screw cap) and
    #8399 (secondary seal depressor) and repeat test 5.
    Was a leak at the gas cap adapter?
    All
    Yes ! Replace the fuel filler tube assembly.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    No ! Replace the gas cap.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    7 Apply an external vacuum to the LDP.
    Using the scan tool, close the LDP seal to atmosphere.
    Inject smoke into the Evap system using the EELD.
    Examine the LDP filter port for smoke.
    Is smoke visible from the LDP?
    All
    Yes ! Replace the LDP.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    No ! Go To 8
    8 To continue testing you will need Miller Tool #8404 Evaporative Emission Leak
    Detector (EELD).
    WARNING: Keep lit cigarettes, sparks, flames, and other ignition sources
    away from the test area to prevent the ignition of explosive gases. Keep the
    test area well ventilated.
    Connect the red power lead of EELD to the battery positive terminal and the black
    ground lead to battery negative terminal.
    Disconnect the vacuum hoses at he Evap Purge Solenoid.
    Connect the SMOKE supply tip (black hose) to the service port (if equipped) or to the
    #8404-ADP adapter.
    Set the smoke/air control switch to SMOKE.
    Press the remote smoke/air start button.
    NOTE: Below is an optional method of checking the purge valve for leaks if
    the EELD is unavailable.
    Turn the ignition off.
    Disconnect the vacuum supply hoses from the EVAP Purge Solenoid.
    Using a hand vacuum pump, apply 10 in Hg to the 9CAN9 side of the EVAP Purge
    Solenoid.
    Observe the vacuum gauge for at least 15 seconds.
    With the DRBIIIt, actuate the Evap Purge Solenoid.
    NOTE: If the Evap Purge Solenoid does not hold a vacuum, it will need to be
    replaced.
    Is smoke visible from the Evap Purge Solenoid?
    All
    Yes ! Replace the Evap Purge Solenoid.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    No ! Test Complete.
    161B
    DRIVEABILITY - GAS
    P0442-EVAP LEAK MONITOR MEDIUM (0.040) LEAK DETECTED ?
    Continued
    2001 LH Powertrain Publication No. 81-699-01042 December, 2004
     
  15. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    TEST ACTION APPLICABILITY
    9 At this time, the conditions required to set the DTC are not present.
    Note: Use the Freeze Frame Data to help you duplicate the conditions that
    set the DTC. Pay particular attention to the DTC set conditions, such as,
    VSS, MAP, ECT, and Load.
    Note: A thorough visual inspection of the Evap system hoses, tubes, and
    connections may save time in your diagnosis. Look for any physical damage
    or signs of wetness at connections. The strong smell of fuel vapors may aid
    diagnosis also.
    Note: Refer to any Technical Service Bulletins (TSB?s) that may apply.
    With the DRBIIIt in System Tests, perform the LDP Monitor Test. This will force the
    PCM to run the LDP Monitor. If the monitor fails, further diagnosis is required to
    find faulty component. If the monitor passes, the condition is not present at this time.
    Were any problems found?
    All
    Yes ! Repair as necessary.
    Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 6.
    No ! Test Complete.
    161C
    DRIVEABILITY - GAS
    P0442-EVAP LEAK MONITOR MEDIUM (0.040) LEAK DETECTED ?
    Continued
    2001 LH Powertrain Publication No. 81-699-01042 December, 2004
     
  16. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    this is for a 2001 2.7 dohc (im guessing you have the 2.7)
    3.2 is the same procedures

    if you need any more info on chrysler/dodge/sprinter cars lmk
    :)
     
  17. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    One final question Rio....does your 300 have a digital oddometer? If so, try this to see if a code pops up on it:

    With the car off...

    Turn the key to the "ON" (not start) position.
    Turn it off
    Turn it on
    Turn it off
    Turn it on and leave on (never cranking or starting)

    See if a diagnostic code pops up on the oddometer. I know this works on many Chrysler and Dodge products.
     
  18. iamwiz82

    iamwiz82 Lifer

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    The 300m only had the 3.5L available.
     
  19. Rio Rebel

    Rio Rebel Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member

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    It does have a digital odometer. I will try that. I also have one of the cheap code readers, which I have been using.

    Love that sig, by the way. It amazes me that there is so little discussion of outsourcing these days, when it affects so many high paying jobs here.
     
  20. 1prophet

    1prophet Diamond Member

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    Your car uses a Leak Detection Pump or LDP as it is commonly called to check the fuel tank and hoses for leaks by pressurizing the gas tank and checking the decay rate. You need a smoke machine, scan tool with bi-directional controls and knowledge of how that system works or else repairs are hit or miss.

     
  21. SpeedEng66

    SpeedEng66 Diamond Member

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    maybe but in dealerconnect I have 4 different types of engines that went into the 300m
    I work for chrysler btw ;)
     
  22. AdamK47

    AdamK47 Lifer

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    With my ODB-II scanner I pulled a P0442 code on my wifes Monte Carlo SS a few days ago. She had an aftermarket gas cap with the lock on it. I cleared the code and put the original gas cap back on. The check engine light hasn't come on since then.