Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,070
8,085
136
if i take $1,000 from someone making $10,000/year, and $10M from someone making $100M/year, who exactly is hurting more?

10%? That's for p!@#$s.

25% flat tax. "Take" $10,000 from someone making $40,000/year.
Basic Income to give them $15,000.
Gain of $5,000.

Same tax and UBI on $100m/year, they gain $15k, and they lose 25m. Who exactly is hurting more?
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,157
11,033
136
10%? That's for p!@#$s.

25% flat tax. "Take" $10,000 from someone making $40,000/year.
Basic Income to give them $15,000.
Gain of $5,000.

Same tax and UBI on $100m/year, they gain $15k, and they lose 25m. Who exactly is hurting more?
you're joking, right? the person making 45k net/year, duh. why? because any sort of financial instability - let's say... a medical emergency, a broken down car, a landlord raising rent, loss of income (even temporary) - is far more impactful. after all, that millionaire who only now has $75M left after the $25M in taxes can still piss away $45k every day of the year for the next 4.5 years and still have $1M left over.

no different than taking $50B from elon musk. dude would still have $150B left. did he "lose" a fuckton of money? yes. does he still have a fuckton of money left over? also yes.

the scale of wealth inequality is truly staggering that it's difficult to comprehend. it's like saying the universe is 13.5B light years across. yeah, that's big. it's so big that it's almost impossible to appreciate.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
With the current tax system the rich barely pay any tax because of the loop holes. My proposal for flat 10% tax includes simplifying the system and also getting rid of all the loopholes so that EVERYONE, even the rich pay 10%. No less no more. Right now they don't while rest of us pay well over double 10%. Someone like Elon Musk pays less taxes than we do so I would think that you guys who hate him so much would like a system that makes him pay more. Then there's Trump, when the info came out about his tax returns it turns out he only pays like $750/year. That's less than what we pay in a single pay cheque! How is that fair? Wanting to keep more of my own earned money is not selfish, I'm the one that worked for it, I should get to keep most of it instead of giving almost half to the government. By the time you factor in the tax brackets for both federal and provincial, then sales taxes for both, then all the other taxes they keep adding, we pay well over 50% tax on the money we make. It's completely absurd and it's even more absurd that some of you defend that. The rich don't pay any of these taxes as they have ways around it.

We need a smaller streamlined government that spends less and uses tax dollars efficiently instead of the free for all that's going on now. Never going to happen though, why would a government want to shrink themselves.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,030
13,539
136
With the current tax system the rich barely pay any tax because of the loop holes. My proposal for flat 10% tax includes simplifying the system and also getting rid of all the loopholes so that EVERYONE, even the rich pay 10%. No less no more. Right now they don't while rest of us pay well over double 10%. Someone like Elon Musk pays less taxes than we do so I would think that you guys who hate him so much would like a system that makes him pay more. Then there's Trump, when the info came out about his tax returns it turns out he only pays like $750/year. That's less than what we pay in a single pay cheque! How is that fair? Wanting to keep more of my own earned money is not selfish, I'm the one that worked for it, I should get to keep most of it instead of giving almost half to the government. By the time you factor in the tax brackets for both federal and provincial, then sales taxes for both, then all the other taxes they keep adding, we pay well over 50% tax on the money we make. It's completely absurd and it's even more absurd that some of you defend that. The rich don't pay any of these taxes as they have ways around it.

We need a smaller streamlined government that spends less and uses tax dollars efficiently instead of the free for all that's going on now. Never going to happen though, why would a government want to shrink themselves.


This TED talk wants to talk to you.
50% is not absurd.
Money is just a token that is worthless standing on its own.
On the other hand if said token stands on top of all the shoulders that came before it and side by side with those that came up with it... Suddenly its worth something.
You have to invest in the "other" for the token to be worth anything, otherwise its pretty worthless.

But if you DO watch the talk you might begin to appreciate the concept of "free for all" education - for one. (so you better not, just to be safe).
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
So you're really ok with half the money you make just being taken from you? If money is just a token that is worthless standing on it's own do you mind sending me the other 50% of your pay cheque? I have a mortgage to pay off and my bills keep going up every year because of inflation and government taking half of my money.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
15,449
136
So you're really ok with half the money you make just being taken from you? If money is just a token that is worthless standing on it's own do you mind sending me the other 50% of your pay cheque? I have a mortgage to pay off and my bills keep going up every year because of inflation and government taking half of my money.

Can you explain how a progressive tax system works?
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,157
11,033
136
So you're really ok with half the money you make just being taken from you? If money is just a token that is worthless standing on it's own do you mind sending me the other 50% of your pay cheque? I have a mortgage to pay off and my bills keep going up every year because of inflation and government taking half of my money.
you must being doing pretty damn well if the government is taking half your money!

CA - 13.5%
highest federal tax bracket ($539,901+) - 37% ($162,718 plus 37% of the amount over $539,900. )

so even if federal taxes applied to your entire income, not the incremental earnings, that means to send 50% of your pay to state and federal government combined, you're making over 500k as a single filer, which puts you in the top 1% of all income earners in the country. you must live a very, very tough life!
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
I would be, if they were not taking half my money! I'm basically living pay cheque to pay cheque like most people. Inflation is sure not helping things either and that's also partially the government's fault. I was actually doing better 10 years ago even though I made less. Inflation is more to blame than taxes but taxes sure don't help. It's like kicking you when you're already down. It's an even bigger kick in the face when you find out all the BS the taxes get wasted on, or when it's not even accounted for in first place. Over 600 billion unaccounted for last year alone.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,975
5,593
136
you must being doing pretty damn well if the government is taking half your money!

CA - 13.5%
highest federal tax bracket ($539,901+) - 37% ($162,718 plus 37% of the amount over $539,900. )

so even if federal taxes applied to your entire income, not the incremental earnings, that means to send 50% of your pay to state and federal government combined, you're making over 500k as a single filer, which puts you in the top 1% of all income earners in the country. you must live a very, very tough life!
RS is in Canada.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,030
13,539
136
So you're really ok with half the money you make just being taken from you? If money is just a token that is worthless standing on it's own do you mind sending me the other 50% of your pay cheque? I have a mortgage to pay off and my bills keep going up every year because of inflation and government taking half of my money.
What are gonna give me in return for my 50%?
Looking back on society 10 years, 20 years, 50, 100, I think most people should be able to comprehend that my current level of comfort has little to do with society *stealing* 50% of my tokens. Where the shit does all this luxury comfort come from? That’s right, the context. That context doesnt come for free. It costs 50%. Plus minus. I dont know either you get it by now or you dont or you are willfully something. Anyway. Later.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
Flat tax is regressive, any way you sort it. It hurts the lower end far more than upper, and worse than current system. It's not really up for debate.
You can have a progressive flat tax using a prebate.
With the current tax system the rich barely pay any tax because of the loop holes. My proposal for flat 10% tax includes simplifying the system and also getting rid of all the loopholes so that EVERYONE, even the rich pay 10%. No less no more. Right now they don't while rest of us pay well over double 10%. Someone like Elon Musk pays less taxes than we do so I would think that you guys who hate him so much would like a system that makes him pay more. Then there's Trump, when the info came out about his tax returns it turns out he only pays like $750/year. That's less than what we pay in a single pay cheque! How is that fair? Wanting to keep more of my own earned money is not selfish, I'm the one that worked for it, I should get to keep most of it instead of giving almost half to the government. By the time you factor in the tax brackets for both federal and provincial, then sales taxes for both, then all the other taxes they keep adding, we pay well over 50% tax on the money we make. It's completely absurd and it's even more absurd that some of you defend that. The rich don't pay any of these taxes as they have ways around it.

We need a smaller streamlined government that spends less and uses tax dollars efficiently instead of the free for all that's going on now. Never going to happen though, why would a government want to shrink themselves.
Okay you’re proposing roughly an 80% decrease in government revenues. What would you cut to make up for this?
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,131
5,156
146
People really think a flat 10% tax on everyone is a good idea? WTF?

We should have a progressive tax system that increases to 100% over a certain threshold. Let's say $10M for starters.

$0 - 25k = 0%
$25k - 50k = 5%
$50k - 75k = $1.25k + 10% over $50k
$75k - 100k = $3.75k + 15% over $75k
$100k - 150k = $7.5k + 20% over $100k
$150k - 250k = $17.5k + 25% over $150k
$250k - 500k = $42.5k + 30% over $250k
$500k - 1M = $117.5k + 50% over $500k
$1M - 2M = $367.5k + 70% over $1M
$2M - 4M = $1.675M + 80% over $2M
$4M - 10M = $3.275M + 90% over $4M
$10M+ = $8.675M + 100% over 10M

"But muh job creators and the economy!" Nah. This will force "job creators" to put money back into their companies, and millionaires buying boats and cars don't stimulate the economy as much as your lower/middle-class being consumers.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,165
30,117
146
You can have a progressive flat tax using a prebate.

Okay you’re proposing roughly an 80% decrease in government revenues. What would you cut to make up for this?

RS thinks everyone needs to live in bronze age conditions to suit his personal preference of living. That's really all there is to it.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,739
26,903
136
I think people love the idea of cutting government spending as a concept. They are usually far less enthusiastic when having to choose what to cut.
All government spending is waste except that which directly benefits you and then it’s only a benefit to you and wasted on the other undeserving recipients.

Anti-tax logic

Hell in Michigan we have conservatives simultaneously complaining that Whitmer hasn’t fixed the roads, resisting funding to fix the roads and then complaining about the construction that is ongoing to fix the roads. So fucking tired of the bullshit dishonesty on the right in this country.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
There are tons of places to cut. The amount of waste and inefficiencies that happen in government is staggering. If you think the government works for the people, I have a lakefront property for sale in the Sahara desert. It also comes with a bridge.

And yet you then launch into another idiot proposal to institute a flat tx, such that the wealthy then pay far far far far less in "barely any taxes, but without loopholes!"

holy shit you're just dumb.

10% is better than 0%. Most rich people pay way less than 10%. A flat tax, provided the system is actually implemented correctly, would mean they finally pay their fair share while rest of us pay less. It's win win. I don't know what is dumb about that. Maybe tone down on the personal attacks if you can't understand a simple concept.
 
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Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,132
1,794
106
Tax BracketTax Rate
$0.00+0%
$2,300.00+14%
$3,400.00+16%
$4,400.00+18%
$6,500.00+19%
$8,500.00+21%
$10,800.00+24%
$12,900.00+26%
$15,000.00+30%
$18,200.00+34%
$23,500.00+39%
$28,800.00+44%
$34,100.00+49%
$41,500.00+55%
$55,300.00+63%
$81,800.00+68%
$108,300.00+70%
1980 tax federal brackets
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
There are tons of places to cut. The amount of waste and inefficiencies that happen in government is staggering. If you think the government works for the people, I have a lakefront property for sale in the Sahara desert. It also comes with a bridge.



10% is better than 0%. Most rich people pay way less than 10%. A flat tax, provided the system is actually implemented correctly, would mean they finally pay their fair share while rest of us pay less. It's win win. I don't know what is dumb about that. Maybe tone down on the personal attacks if you can't understand a simple concept.
Ok great, what are those places?
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,030
13,539
136
Something tells me Elon dont really understand that his tantrums has consequences...

Like burning your brand on the stake for the return value of nothing. Elon has officially positioned himself on #AntiAbortion and #TeamTreason - many times now.

Its not cool to own a Tesla anymore you dolt.