Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,613
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Ha. Elon gets rejected for nearly 800 million in subsidies for Starlink he applied for in 2020, while he was saying subsidies are bad, after of course taking them for his companies before.

The guy can never stop bullshitting

.
i wouldn't have minded the grant to starlink, because it really is a godsend for rural communities. that being said, they don't actually *need* the money, seeing as musk is flush with cash to buy twitter.
 
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kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,015
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i wouldn't have minded the grant to starlink, because it really is a godsend for rural communities. that being said, they don't actually *need* the money, seeing as musk is flush with cash to buy twitter.
Yea, but the basis for FCC rejecting the grant is because Starlink couldn't deliver on the promised services. If they can't, or not willing to, show proof that they can deliver on their promised services then why should they receive the grant? Sorry but no charity here.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,352
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I too have zero issue with worthwhile infrastructure being subsidized, whether it's Elon's company or not. Just pointing out he is the worst kind of hypocrite.

Also it does say Starlink was not up to snuff.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,269
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Yea, but the basis for FCC rejecting the grant is because Starlink couldn't deliver on the promised services. If they can't, or not willing to, show proof that they can deliver on their promised services then why should they receive the grant? Sorry but no charity here.
Starlink speeds have been greatly reduced in certain cell areas, most likely because they released the stupid rv variant service and people got around the limited spots that way
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,463
10,348
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Only in the world of Ajit Pai does it make sense to give a grant to a company that charges $600 up front to provide service to underserved and in-need communities.
I was going to say something from other peoples comment about serving the rural areas. Most people in rural areas don't have that kind of money to blow. Hell, a couple miles further out from me, if you want any decent bandwidth you have to go with Huges, and that's still expensive for what you get.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,357
1,544
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Ha. Elon gets rejected for nearly 800 million in subsidies for Starlink he applied for in 2020, while he was saying subsidies are bad, after of course taking them for his companies before.

The guy can never stop bullshitting

.

Musk has said for a long time that all subsidies should end and should instead be replaced with a Carbon tax for energy and transportation sectors.

MuskCapture.JPG

MuskCapture2.JPG
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,357
1,544
136

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,015
1,321
136
Musk has said for a long time that all subsidies should end and should instead be replaced with a Carbon tax for energy and transportation sectors.

View attachment 65852

View attachment 65853
Yes, but his mouth and hands are not doing the same thing. His mouth says, "Subsidies are bad!" His hands say, "Gimme, gimme, gimme!"

I swear, Musk fanbois willingly want to be gaslighted by him.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,357
1,544
136
Yes, but his mouth and hands are not doing the same thing. His mouth says, "Subsidies are bad!" His hands say, "Gimme, gimme, gimme!"

I swear, Musk fanbois willingly want to be gaslighted by him.

There is a lot of nuance that you are missing when Musk argues against subsidies and for a Carbon tax. However people that suffer from MDS have that problem.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,015
1,321
136
There is a lot of nuance that you are missing when Musk argues against subsidies and for a Carbon tax. However people that suffer from MDS have that problem.
Please do share.

Also, the only thing I dislike more than the word "nuance" is people using the word because they are usually full of shit.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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Please do share.

Also, the only thing I dislike more than the word "nuance" is people using the word because they are usually full of shit.

His calling for removal of subsidies is predicated on removal of those subsidies for all companies to create a more level playing field. However until that happens, Tesla will continue to go after subsidies. If Tesla didn't, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage while subsidies are available.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,015
1,321
136
His calling for removal of subsidies is predicated on removal of those subsidies for all companies to create a more level playing field. However until that happens, Tesla will continue to go after subsidies. If Tesla didn't, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage while subsidies are available.
In other words, FYIGM.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,352
19,820
136
His calling for removal of subsidies is predicated on removal of those subsidies for all companies to create a more level playing field. However until that happens, Tesla will continue to go after subsidies. If Tesla didn't, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage while subsidies are available.
We aren't talking about Tesla. We are talking about Starlink.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,259
12,889
136
Subsidies must end

For all.

Until that date I am gonna exploit subsidies like my competitors do.




I am NOT a Musk fan …. common
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,073
8,002
136
It’s a perfectly reasonable position to be against subsidies but to take advantage of them while they exist.

I can't decide if I agree with that or not. There's definitely a defensible logic to it, but isn't it a wider topic that comes up in relation to many things? And I'm not convinced people are consistent about the wider principle.

If a liberal or leftist campaigned against tax-loopholes, only for it to turn out they were doing everything they could to take advantage of those loopholes themselves, I'm pretty sure that would be treated as a credibility-damaging revalation.

Or if they campaigned against profiteering by landlords, while being one themselves, again, that wouldn't be well-received.

Or you oppose private education because of the way it reinforces class heirarchies, but you send your own children to private schools.

Generally if you disapprove of the rules of the game, you don't play the game.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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I can't decide if I agree with that or not. There's definitely a defensible logic to it, but isn't it a wider topic that comes up in relation to many things? And I'm not convinced people are consistent about the wider principle.

If a liberal or leftist campaigned against tax-loopholes, only for it to turn out they were doing everything they could to take advantage of those loopholes themselves, I'm pretty sure that would be treated as a credibility-damaging revalation.

Or if they campaigned against profiteering by landlords, while being one themselves, again, that wouldn't be well-received.

Or you oppose private education because of the way it reinforces class heirarchies, but you send your own children to private schools.

Generally if you disapprove of the rules of the game, you don't play the game.

You would have a point if Musk was the sole owner of Tesla but he isn't. He only owns about ~20%. The majority of the shareholders in Tesla don't share Musk's opinion about subsidies.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,357
1,544
136
We aren't talking about Tesla. We are talking about Starlink.

Well you should know when Musk was talking about subsidies and that they should be eliminated, he was talking about not liking subsidies in the context of Tesla. His position about subsides isn't relevant to Starlink because that is in a different industry.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,352
19,820
136
Well you should know when Musk was talking about subsidies and that they should be eliminated, he was talking about not liking subsidies in the context of Tesla. His position about subsides isn't relevant to Starlink because that is in a different industry.
Of course. And the best way to save those kids in the cave was a mini submarine and if you didn't agree, you were a pedo.

With Elon, in so many things he has said and done, it's say one thing but do another.

It's sad you keep defending him
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,698
13,466
146
Starlink is a scam.

There’s a bit of bias in this video.

While the financial stuff is compelling he comparison to other satellite providers is pretty off.

ookla_satellite_internet_comparison_us_0821.png


Upload and download speeds are much closer to regular fixed speeds. For me in the suburb of a major city 97 down 13 up was faster than what I had from Comcast (80 down 6 up). 80down and 6 up was also enough for 5 of us working and schooling from home. (We jumped to 1gig Frontier fiber when it became available last year almost entirely due to Comcast’s data cap)

The 600-750 ms latency of standard satellite is going to be bad for more than just gaming, it’ll be noticeable for video conferencing as well.

The top rated $160/month plan from Hughes has a 75GB data cap. Starlink doesn’t. Price wise even including the $600 dish + $100/month charge the first year costs $120 less for Starlink.

The cost lost per user terminal also assumes no manufacturing cost reduction. Most electronics drop in production cost across their lifetime (PS3 being an example) and I can’t see the ground terminal remaining @ $2000. The one caveat is the continued issues with chip manufacturing and supply chain issues. That could potentially keep production costs much higher than they predicted and tank the entire endeavor.

I’m also not a fan of how he presents the Kessler syndrome. Micrometeorite and Orbital Debris (MMOD) is a huge risk. That’s true. He’s right that large constellations of satellites increase the risk of debris chain reactions.

But he’s not right about starlinks orbit being bad. 550 KM with these high drag satellites means any failed satellite will come down in a relatively short time (5-6 years being relatively short). Satellite constellations will need regulations that require EOL satellites to de-orbit themselves and that deployments are clean or Kessler syndrome does become a real possibility.

Shotwells comment about the satellites basically being alone is not untrue. Assuming 80% coverage and assuming all 42K satellites are at the exact same altitude of 550KM (they won’t be) they’ll be on average 1 satellite in a 12,000km^2 area (or on average they will be 105KM apart.)

His comments on MMOD strikes on steel was just for dramatic effect. Every vehicle that flys in or passes through Earth orbit especially LEO is at risk for MMOD impacts. Even James Webb out at L2 took a hit.

The risk of an MMOD strike is managed by
  • Ground radar tracking every satellite and piece of debris down to a certain size and warning satellites at risk of collision to maneuver out of the way
  • Kevlar and whipple shielding* to absorb impacts up to a certain size
  • Vehicle redundancy / margin so an impact by a single particle too small to see but big enough to make a hole can’t take out the vehicle.
(*Whipple shielding test - particpenetrates 1st plate and sprawls against second plate failing to penetrate)
30bDJcQ.jpg

I agree that Starlink has a lot of risks, the cost of the satellites and user terminals has to drop or it’ll be a financial loser. But mass manufacturing tends to do that. The cost per launch has to come down which is what Starship is supposed to provide (big risks here). Starlinks technical capability is demonstrably better than other satellite providers and on par with low/average cable offerings.

Personally I might consider buying the service depending on my location and competition but I probably wouldn’t invest in it.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,357
1,544
136
Of course. And the best way to save those kids in the cave was a mini submarine and if you didn't agree, you were a pedo.

With Elon, in so many things he has said and done, it's say one thing but do another.

It's sad you keep defending him

Just fact checking your lies about Musk.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,228
5,228
136
Man child with too much money, but I'm thinking it's a "joke".


-Elon Musk, the world’s richest person, on Tuesday tweeted that he was buying football club Manchester United Plc, without offering any details.
...
Musk has a history of unconventional actions and comments, making it difficult sometimes to tell when he is joking.
 

uallas5

Golden Member
Jun 3, 2005
1,433
1,559
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