Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
29,295
5,476
126
I used to think that too but all I see is greed, exploitation, and missed opportunity to do good.

Call me jaded but when scientists have been warning us about climate change for decades and we’ve (as all of humanity) have done nothing impactful to combat it, I just don’t see how space exploration changes our course.
You can walk and chew bubblegum, as the saying goes.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
10,320
6,971
146
I used to think that too but all I see is greed, exploitation, and missed opportunity to do good.

Call me jaded but when scientists have been warning us about climate change for decades and we’ve (as all of humanity) have done nothing impactful to combat it, I just don’t see how space exploration changes our course.
Well sure, if you want to be nihilistic we should probably just push the big red button and annihilate ourselves. Until that happens though, scientific advancement to outpace our destruction is the name of the game.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
11,218
5,033
136
I used to think that too but all I see is greed, exploitation, and missed opportunity to do good.

Call me jaded but when scientists have been warning us about climate change for decades and we’ve (as all of humanity) have done nothing impactful to combat it, I just don’t see how space exploration changes our course.
NASA was studying other planetary systems, and, especially the earth with satellites. It was NASA scientist who sent up the first warnings that the oceans were warming at very quickly (in geologic time) and that atmospheric CO2 was also increasing (IIRC). So, big win for scientific research. Not much of a win for ever conflicted human beings. 25 years of disinformation from the large OIL companies really set up back and sowed seeds of doubt that continue to this day.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,544
11,476
136
NASA was studying other planetary systems, and, especially the earth with satellites. It was NASA scientist who sent up the first warnings that the oceans were warming at very quickly (in geologic time) and that atmospheric CO2 was also increasing (IIRC). So, big win for scientific research. Not much of a win for ever conflicted human beings. 25 years of disinformation from the large OIL companies really set up back and sowed seeds of doubt that continue to this day.
So doesn’t it seem like our focus should be fighting misinformation and educating people? The space stuff seems kind of pointless when societies are in the beginning stages of collapse.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
4,214
190
106
His Starlink has issues with cluttering space with a bajillion little satellites including fucking up astronomy. Some handwave this away but I’ve seen plenty of articles that, no, it really is fucking things up and will only get worse. Someone with more knowledge can chime in on whats really up with that
SpaceX has been actively working with the Astronomy community to minimize the impact. This has resulted in new Starlink satellites being 5 times dimmer than previous models with a brightness magnitude of 6.8. Astronomers would like to see this number at a magnitude of at least a 7. The higher the number the fainter the object is.

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/spacex-starlink-astronomy-impact

SpaceX has been first with a mega-constellation. However several other companies and countries are looking to deploy their own mega-constellation. The issue isn't going away unless there is a comprehensive agreement among nations around these mega constellations.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
4,214
190
106
So doesn’t it seem like our focus should be fighting misinformation and educating people? The space stuff seems kind of pointless when societies are in the beginning stages of collapse.
Overall we spend a very small percentage of our resources in space. The overall NASA budget is about 1/2% of the US Federal Budget.

You think the Hubble Space Telescope was pointless?
Have you ever used a digital camera before?
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
11,218
5,033
136
I used to think that too but all I see is greed, exploitation, and missed opportunity to do good.

Call me jaded but when scientists have been warning us about climate change for decades and we’ve (as all of humanity) have done nothing impactful to combat it, I just don’t see how space exploration changes our course.
NASA was studying other planetary systems, and, especially the earth with satellites. It was NASA scientists who sent up the first warnings that the oceans were warming at very quickly (in geologic time) and that atmospheric CO2 was also increasing (IIRC). So, big win for scientific research. Not much of a win for ever conflicted human beings. 25 years of disinformation from the large OIL companies really set up back and sowed seeds of doubt that continue to this day. The problem isn't scientific research, it's self interested corporations and powerful individuals who wage war against that research. I believe humanity will put an end to climate change, it'll just take much longer than it should have and cost far, far more than it should have in lives, property and global financial stability. God bless our grandchildren.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
14,319
11,209
136
Well, I personally benefit from weather satellites, atmospheric monitoring satellites, GPS, communication sats. Humanity gains from exploration probes, etc.

Launch costs dropping like a rock enables much more of all of these.
Agreed. I can applaud Elon in what hands he has had in bringing Space-X to where it is, I can still also realize he is a dangerous man to society overall. The guy is a petulant little thin-skinned hypocritical troll with way too much power and sway.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,544
11,476
136
NASA was studying other planetary systems, and, especially the earth with satellites. It was NASA scientists who sent up the first warnings that the oceans were warming at very quickly (in geologic time) and that atmospheric CO2 was also increasing (IIRC). So, big win for scientific research. Not much of a win for ever conflicted human beings. 25 years of disinformation from the large OIL companies really set up back and sowed seeds of doubt that continue to this day. The problem isn't scientific research, it's self interested corporations and powerful individuals who wage war against that research. I believe humanity will put an end to climate change, it'll just take much longer than it should have and cost far, far more than it should have in lives, property and global financial stability. God bless our grandchildren.
You are making my point for me. Musk is that self interested corporation and powerful individual. His latest muse puts him in the potentially dangerous rich and powerful category. I don’t have faith that he’ll do the right thing but I’d love to be proven wrong.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
4,214
190
106
You are making my point for me. Musk is that self interested corporation and powerful individual. His latest muse puts him in the potentially dangerous rich and powerful category. I don’t have faith that he’ll do the right thing but I’d love to be proven wrong.
What does this have to do with the space stuff being pointless?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,544
11,476
136
What does this have to do with the space stuff being pointless?
My point is that what you see as virtuous and a step forward for mankind, I see as yet another attempt at making money and exploiting people and our government. It’s ok if you don’t agree, I know that my view is rather extreme and pessimistic. Just so we are clear though, I have nothing against science or NASA for that matter, I just don’t think it’s going to do much for us in this point in time.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,665
6,110
136
Agreed. I can applaud Elon in what hands he has had in bringing Space-X to where it is, I can still also realize he is a dangerous man to society overall. The guy is a petulant little thin-skinned hypocritical troll with way too much power and sway.
I completely agree. He is a terrible person that has gotten worse and worse with time and money. But that doesn't mean everything he's ever done is worthless.

Also he didn't do the engineering at Space-X, he just set up the environment that let the good engineers innovate. Something most aerospace companies haven"t done in decades.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
29,295
5,476
126
I completely agree. He is a terrible person that has gotten worse and worse with time and money. But that doesn't mean everything he's ever done is worthless.

Also he didn't do the engineering at Space-X, he just set up the environment that let the good engineers innovate. Something most aerospace companies haven"t done in decades.
That is probably the biggest thing that gets me about Musk praise/worship - "Elon musk did this!". No, Elon Musk and a massive amount of smart, talented and skilled people did all that. He did not do it all in his own. He just the captain of the ship.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
4,214
190
106
My point is that what you see as virtuous and a step forward for mankind, I see as yet another attempt at making money and exploiting people and our government. It’s ok if you don’t agree, I know that my view is rather extreme and pessimistic. Just so we are clear though, I have nothing against science or NASA for that matter, I just don’t think it’s going to do much for us in this point in time.
Kind of funny you are making this claim while using technology supported by Integrated circuits. The Apollo program help jump start the market for integrated circuits by being a huge early adopter in 1963 because they were used in the Apollo guidance computer. Without Apollo the chip industry would probably be about 5-10 years behind where it is at currently.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
11,665
6,110
136
That is probably the biggest thing that gets me about Musk praise/worship - "Elon musk did this!". No, Elon Musk and a massive amount of smart, talented and skilled people did all that. He did not do it all in his own. He just the captain of the ship.
Case in point, Thomas Mueller is the "father of the Merlin," not Elon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller

They used to actually have that on the SpaceX website, but it isn't there any more. I'm guessing Elon doesn't want to share the spotlight anymore.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,049
2,285
136
That is probably the biggest thing that gets me about Musk praise/worship - "Elon musk did this!". No, Elon Musk and a massive amount of smart, talented and skilled people did all that. He did not do it all in his own. He just the captain of the ship.
Gwynne Shotwell is more the captain of SpaceX. She just spends most of her time running SpaceX, and zero of it being an Asshat on Social Media. She deserves more credit. She's running SpaceX and putting up with Musk.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
30,544
11,476
136
Kind of funny you are making this claim while using technology supported by Integrated circuits. The Apollo program help jump start the market for integrated circuits by being a huge early adopter in 1963 because they were used in the Apollo guidance computer. Without Apollo the chip industry would probably be about 5-10 years behind where it is at currently.
It’s only funny because you lack reading comprehension skills.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,207
4,952
136
Oh I didn’t realize none of that existed before musk. How silly of me./eye roll
I also didn't realise Musk personally designed and physically constructed the rockets and the satellites and all the technology and basic science that went into them. How does he find the time to tweet, what with labouring away on the assembly lines all day and developing new tech all night?

It's quite weird that, in regard to this Twitter affair, that Trumpists seem to think Musk is somehow on 'their side', when it's clear he has complete contempt for US workers, and wants to see their working conditions driven down to Chinese levels, all the better to increase his own wealth.
 

guidryp

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2006
2,049
2,285
136
It's quite weird that, in regard to this Twitter affair, that Trumpists seem to think Musk is somehow on 'their side', when it's clear he has complete contempt for US workers, and wants to see their working conditions driven down to Chinese levels, all the better to increase his own wealth.
So do the Trumpists in positions of power. They have zero respect for the sheep that follow them. Trump basically lives in a gilded tower, and sits on a gold thrown. He wouldn't let hist most ardent worker level supporters onto his golf courses.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,207
4,952
136
So do the Trumpists in positions of power. They have zero respect for the sheep that follow them. Trump basically lives in a gilded tower, and sits on a gold thrown. He wouldn't let hist most ardent worker level supporters onto his golf courses.

True though that is, I don't think Trump himself has ever made it quite as explicit as Musk just did

“There is just a lot of super talented hardworking people in China who strongly believe in manufacturing, they won’t just be burning the midnight oil, they will be burning the 3am oil, they won’t even leave the factory type of thing, whereas in America people are trying to avoid going to work at all.”
 

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