Roger Wilco
Diamond Member
- Mar 20, 2017
- 4,179
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Label Elon as an enemy combatant and deport him back to South Africa.
I agree, I think sometimes just getting out of the way is good leadership, though. I followed the whole vaccine development very closely (I actually invested in Moderna in Jan of 2020) and before Trump announced Warp Speed the whole conversation was that it would be years. I am sure it was pitched by the NIH/CDC, but he still allowed it to happen and pitched it as a goal. Just like JFK didn't really do anything directly with Apollo except setting the goal/expectation.Trump probably had less to do with Operation Warp Speed and probably just agreed to it because his cabinet pressed for it.
Completely agree. I think trade controls should only be used in an intelligent way, not the way Trump wants them done.As for trade protection. I think that can be good, but it has to be done in an intelligent fashion. Trump is an utter fucking moron, and doesn't know what the hell he's doing. These tariffs and trade embargos which Trump started, which are exacerbated by Biden, has gotten to the point it is pissing off our allies.
For example, while I have no issue with the 25% tariffs on Chines made automobiles, a 100% tariff is just protectionism for our domestic automobile manufacturers. The 25% tariff blunts any government subsidies that the Chinese government gives to the Chinese automobile manufacturers. And make no mistake, the Chinese politburo is pushing for more EV's, both as a new industry to try to dominate and to counter environmental issues with ICE vehicles. These tariffs brings up the cost enough to level the playing field for domestic companies, though it also helps foreign manufacturers such as Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc, that are exempt from these tariffs. However, a 100% tariff is merely protectionism. And quite frankly, it's at the point where it hurts American consumers. Look at how insane new car costs are today. Current automobile manufacturers have almost no incentive to make a sub $25k car nowadays. Everything starts at $35k and up, and those are just one step up from the basic beaters. Every car with desirable features seem to be $40k and up.
Another example is computer chip embargos. The US has been keeping the latest manufacturing processes out of China's hands for decades. We keep them about two to three generations back. Enough that we have the latest advancements, but not so far back that China feels the urgent need to invest in its own domestic chip manufacturers, of which there were a few. These domestic Chinese manufacturers were able to produce machines that can produce chips, but at much less advanced nodes. Before the latest chip embargos, China was about 2 generations behind the US. These embaros would push China behind the US by about 4 generations. Trump, and especially Biden, has tightened the noose so much that the Chinese politburo has heavily pushed for increasing domestic chip manufacturing capabilities. Will it happen overnight? Of course not. But it is happening. I actually think that it is possible China may be back to being about two generations behind the US again in as little as about 15-20 years. But this time, without the need to purchase lithography machinery from companies like ASML. And that's an overall negative for us. We would lose most of the control over China on that front, and it's one less tool we have to combat China.
So Bush should not have liberated Kuwait?
So Medicare Part D hasn't helped anyone other than his donors?
Saying that no republican has done anything good since 1984 just makes people look like partisan hacks. Just like dems have done some bad things in the last 40 years, republicans have managed to do a few decent things.
All three of the non-trump republicans also signed major arms reduction treaties, which I believe have been a net positive. Reagan authorized GPS and opened it for civilian use.
Every time a rocket launches(Except for the Falcon 9) there is debris going into a new area in the Ocean because trajectories change. Dropping launch hardware into the Ocean is industry standard practice and has already been analyzed extensively. What is gained by analyzing this issue again?I don't know enough to make an opinion, except that it shouldn't be fighting with their regulator in the court of public opinion. To me it seems reasonable to look at the environmental impacts of debris making into a new area. I've also worked with waste water, a long time ago, and know the regulations are complicated. If they think they got fined over retroactive changes, they need to fight that in court.
Compared to what the FAA does with airlines and airframers, I don't think any of this is that big of a deal.
I also know that you can trust public statements from Elon companies as much as you can trust Fox News, maybe less. Regardless the statements I originally quoted were unprofessional and no one would tolerate that from Boeing or Delta Airlines.
Trump probably had less to do with Operation Warp Speed and probably just agreed to it because his cabinet pressed for it.
As for trade protection. I think that can be good, but it has to be done in an intelligent fashion. Trump is an utter fucking moron, and doesn't know what the hell he's doing. These tariffs and trade embargos which Trump started, which are exacerbated by Biden, has gotten to the point it is pissing off our allies.
For example, while I have no issue with the 25% tariffs on Chines made automobiles, a 100% tariff is just protectionism for our domestic automobile manufacturers. The 25% tariff blunts any government subsidies that the Chinese government gives to the Chinese automobile manufacturers. And make no mistake, the Chinese politburo is pushing for more EV's, both as a new industry to try to dominate and to counter environmental issues with ICE vehicles. These tariffs brings up the cost enough to level the playing field for domestic companies, though it also helps foreign manufacturers such as Toyota, Honda, Kia, etc, that are exempt from these tariffs. However, a 100% tariff is merely protectionism. And quite frankly, it's at the point where it hurts American consumers. Look at how insane new car costs are today. Current automobile manufacturers have almost no incentive to make a sub $25k car nowadays. Everything starts at $35k and up, and those are just one step up from the basic beaters. Every car with desirable features seem to be $40k and up.
Another example is computer chip embargos. The US has been keeping the latest manufacturing processes out of China's hands for decades. We keep them about two to three generations back. Enough that we have the latest advancements, but not so far back that China feels the urgent need to invest in its own domestic chip manufacturers, of which there were a few. These domestic Chinese manufacturers were able to produce machines that can produce chips, but at much less advanced nodes. Before the latest chip embargos, China was about 2 generations behind the US. These embaros would push China behind the US by about 4 generations. Trump, and especially Biden, has tightened the noose so much that the Chinese politburo has heavily pushed for increasing domestic chip manufacturing capabilities. Will it happen overnight? Of course not. But it is happening. I actually think that it is possible China may be back to being about two generations behind the US again in as little as about 15-20 years. But this time, without the need to purchase lithography machinery from companies like ASML. And that's an overall negative for us. We would lose most of the control over China on that front, and it's one less tool we have to combat China.
The article was about Biden and his administration leaving Tesla out of the conversation and Musk feeling snubbed. Corporations and administrations are collectives of human beings, so I was speaking about them as a collective. But if it helps to move past this, I'll restate my argument.This isn't a Tesla thread. What does it matter what Tesla needs. The question doesn't even make sense, really. Only people not corporate entities can feel need. The piece I quoted used the expression that Musk felt snubbed. I used that expression too. My opinion is that emotionally needy people only can feel snubbed when some need, some need for attention and care isn't met, real or imagined. I say he grew up not having those needs met and that left him vulnerable as an adult to feeling demeaned and left out. I say that influences his actions and gives him his personality and character. Neediness creates egocentricity is a form of bigotry. Everything is about him and his feelings, ones he is not even consciously aware of. This is my opinion. I am sticking with it.
Thank you for expressing your own. A healthy mind would not be bothered by the same unconscious bigotry coming from Biden who was consciously aware of how Musk would feel. I see two children in this regard. I have no opinion one way or the other about who or what justifies what. Two children, no other opinion about that. No judgment about who is the bigger child, etc. I see what I see in them because I know what stupid self pity looks like having personally experienced plenty of it.
Fair enough. I understand the point you are making and I think I failed to address it adequately. I have an unusual point of view as to what bigotry is and tried to explain it in only one of the two people involved.The article was about Biden and his administration leaving Tesla out of the conversation and Musk feeling snubbed. Corporations and administrations are collectives of human beings, so I was speaking about them as a collective. But if it helps to move past this, I'll restate my argument.
It’s not bigotry. Elon Musk does not need encouragement from the administration to have Tesla build electric cars and infrastructure. The CEOs of the big 3 do. Musk has gotten plenty of encouragement in the form of billions of dollars in federal subsidies in any event. Musk doesn't even run a car company. According to him Tesla is an AI Robotics company. Bigotry not found.
I'm not bothered by your opinion, I just disagree with it. Your implication that I have an unhealthy mind is noted. You state that because of how Musk grew up he ended up being a needy person, which created egocentricity in him, which is a form of bigotry. But somehow Biden's actions constitute bigotry against Musk because Biden was consciously aware of how Musk would feel by not being included in conversations about electrification in the automotive industry and meetings with other automaker CEOs. But the bigotry was unconscious in spite of Biden being consciously aware of how Musk, the bigot, would feel? Doesn't make sense, so still disagree.
Hey, is that the DogeDesigner that's considered to most likely be one of Leon's alt accounts?
Moonbeam implying someone else has an unhealthy mind. I mean there are no words … musk’s tweet should be cause for immediate revocation of all security clearances and at minimum a visit by the secret service.The article was about Biden and his administration leaving Tesla out of the conversation and Musk feeling snubbed. Corporations and administrations are collectives of human beings, so I was speaking about them as a collective. But if it helps to move past this, I'll restate my argument.
It’s not bigotry. Elon Musk does not need encouragement from the administration to have Tesla build electric cars and infrastructure. The CEOs of the big 3 do. Musk has gotten plenty of encouragement in the form of billions of dollars in federal subsidies in any event. Musk doesn't even run a car company. According to him Tesla is an AI Robotics company. Bigotry not found.
I'm not bothered by your opinion, I just disagree with it. Your implication that I have an unhealthy mind is noted. You state that because of how Musk grew up he ended up being a needy person, which created egocentricity in him, which is a form of bigotry. But somehow Biden's actions constitute bigotry against Musk because Biden was consciously aware of how Musk would feel by not being included in conversations about electrification in the automotive industry and meetings with other automaker CEOs. But the bigotry was unconscious in spite of Biden being consciously aware of how Musk, the bigot, would feel? Doesn't make sense, so still disagree.
Don't forget, of the two big mRNA vaccines, one was developed by BioNTech, a German firm, which wasn't even part of Warp Speed. Trump always took credit for it though. In the US it was generally referred to as the Pfizer vaccine, but Pfizer were only brought in for testing and production help.Trump probably had less to do with Operation Warp Speed and probably just agreed to it because his cabinet pressed for it.
That help is still extremely important. Being able to make and distribute complex pharmaceuticals at large scales following good manufacturing processes, and also running the clinical trials across hundreds of sites is quite an undertaking.In the US it was generally referred to as the Pfizer vaccine, but Pfizer were only brought in for testing and production help.
Maybe my recollection is off, but Pfizer bankrolled BioNTech to a large degree, no?That help is still extremely important. Being able to make and distribute complex pharmaceuticals at large scales following good manufacturing processes, and also running the clinical trials across hundreds of sites is quite an undertaking.
I believe Pfizer was developing the vaccine well before they agreed to take any money from the government (looks like July of 2020 when they came to an agreement). However, I think it was also pretty clear that if they were successful, the government would be buying vaccines, so the incentive was certainly there, and government money would flow towards those companies.Maybe my recollection is off, but Pfizer bankrolled BioNTech to a large degree, no?
And didn't OWS give Pfizer a large guaranteed contract at some point even before Phase 3 trials? So while I agree Pfizer/BioNTech developed Comirnaty (tm) jointly, they were not completely detached from OWS either.
This seems a fair reaction for someone who can’t read.Moonbeam implying someone else has an unhealthy mind. I mean there are no words …
All this means is that you see the dangers of allowing bigoted idiots to influence millions of people and potentially create violent reactions in even stupider people. Musk uses his wealth to acquire power and that power to intimidate so people get out of his way. Saying that should not be is easy for you to say; it lets you express your contempt but it is fundamentally childish because it is a should that is fraught with enormous complexities to bring to effect. What’s your plan? Mine is not to give him the time of day. You want him silenced because you are childish enough to allow him to drive you apeshit. That’s my opinion. I called that unhealthy. Others might call it stupid.musk’s tweet should be cause for immediate revocation of all security clearances and at minimum a visit by the secret service.
Correct. At the time BioNTech's production capabilities were quite small, so they teamed up with Pfizer to help produce enough vaccines, first for testing and then for distribution. They chose Pfizer because they had partnered similarly pre-Covid for other vaccines that BioNTech had developed.That help is still extremely important. Being able to make and distribute complex pharmaceuticals at large scales following good manufacturing processes, and also running the clinical trials across hundreds of sites is quite an undertaking.
I believe the OWS connection was that was the US government chose to pay for the vaccines they were reserving using OWS funds. BioNTech had developed the vaccine before partnering Pfizer. I'm sure that money went to help covering the cost of the trials, but they would have gone on with the trials regardless. In fact, BioNTech insisted that the initial doses of vaccines be free for all US residents before they would agree to the deal.Maybe my recollection is off, but Pfizer bankrolled BioNTech to a large degree, no?
And didn't OWS give Pfizer a large guaranteed contract at some point even before Phase 3 trials? So while I agree Pfizer/BioNTech developed Comirnaty (tm) jointly, they were not completely detached from OWS either.
I looked it up and my recollection was a bit off. OWS guaranteed Pfizer/BioNTech huge profits, IF the vaccine got FDA approval. So it was conditional purchase, not guaranteed. Many experts believe that knowing up front that you'll make billions in profits if your product works IS highly motivating. In essence, it doesn't really change the risk side of the equation but it boosted the reward side.Correct. At the time BioNTech's production capabilities were quite small, so they teamed up with Pfizer to help produce enough vaccines, first for testing and then for distribution. They chose Pfizer because they had partnered similarly pre-Covid for other vaccines that BioNTech had developed.
I believe the OWS connection was that was the US government chose to pay for the vaccines they were reserving using OWS funds. BioNTech had developed the vaccine before partnering Pfizer. I'm sure that money went to help covering the cost of the trials, but they would have gone on with the trials regardless. In fact, BioNTech insisted that the initial doses of vaccines be free for all US residents before they would agree to the deal.
Ferguson based his assessment on internal second-quarter figures recently obtained by the New York Times. According to this report, X booked $114 million worth of revenue in the U.S., its largest market by far. This represented a 25% drop over the preceding three months and a 53% drop over the year-ago period.
That already sounds bad. But it gets worse. The last publicly available figures prior to Musk’s acquisition, from Q2 of 2022, had revenue at $661 million. After you account for inflation, revenue has actually collapsed by 84%, in today’s dollars.
No one knows how much longer X can survive, since the company doesn’t release financial results. But in November, Musk himself admitted X could face bankruptcy due to the advertiser boycott.
Clearly it’s time to sue more customers so the winning can continue.He's either going to have to start selling Tesla stock to keep it open or hand the keys to the banks.
Clearly it’s time to sue more customers so the winning can continue.
Wasn't the Pfizer testing and production part of Warp Speed?Don't forget, of the two big mRNA vaccines, one was developed by BioNTech, a German firm, which wasn't even part of Warp Speed. Trump always took credit for it though. In the US it was generally referred to as the Pfizer vaccine, but Pfizer were only brought in for testing and production help.
Perhaps I misunderstood the sequence here: "Thank you for expressing your own. A healthy mind would not be bothered by the same unconscious bigotry....." Since you started addressing me, I assumed you were continuing to reference me, but you had switched to Musk in the next sentence. I misapprehended that. All good.Fair enough. I understand the point you are making and I think I failed to address it adequately. I have an unusual point of view as to what bigotry is and tried to explain it in only one of the two people involved.
I am now more concerned about your noting you have an unhealthy mind. I tried reading the post you referred to and I see no connection to what I referred to as an unhealthy mind being implied about you.
I believe humanity is asleep suffering from a motivated refusal to feel feelings that damaged us as children. This includes myself. Where I avoid facing that and blaming others for things I project on them I act with bigotry as I define it. So yes, it is quite likely that you have points of views I call sacred cows that I would call bigotry. But this is intended as useful information not a personal attack or should be. Even if somebody insults you or tries to snub you that is there problem.
Unfortunately our egos cause us to take everything personally. I have to go now so maybe later I’ll take this up again.
By definition one is going to think that the side one disagrees with is wrong. That's what disagreeing _means_.
Yes, climate change is a good example. We've known it was a thing for a very long time now but instead of having a discussion between liberals and conservatives about how best to deal with the problem we got decades of denial from conservatives that it was even happening. This board is a good archive of some of that nonsense.that isn't always the case. It used to be that when one comes to arguments and disagreements, both parties often agree on the problem, but the difference lays in how to resolve the problem.
This is less and less the case when one side consistently believes that complete falsehoods are actually true, and can not progress beyond the point that they are arguing from a made-up, nonsense position. When the plain, inarguable facts are in question, then disagreements will never be resolved.
This is where we are right now with "conservatives" in the US, and pretty much everywhere, tbh.
