Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,247
27,310
136
You mean we should trust the Japanese over a guy who's sole tech contribution to the world is coding a passable space invaders clone from 1988? No way!
Crap! I wrote a space invaders clone for the Kaypro II in 1985 and it didn't even have a graphics mode. Where's my billions?
 
Jul 27, 2020
16,985
10,881
106
Tesla board should appoint a female co-CEO and put her in charge of the China, Berlin and one other Tesla factory and give her full autonomy. That should put Elmona on his toes.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,406
1,588
136
Elmo posted on Titter that Reuters is lying again. It should would be nice is Tesla actually had a PR department to handle things like this instead of a manchild sitting on the crapper. Who knows what is going on......
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,193
2,272
136
Ditch a product people might want for something that mountains of cash have been incinerated trying to build. Ok.

How do you cancel something that didn't even exist? :p

Tbh the rumored Model 2 isn't relevant to anything. There is little market in the U.S. for compact sedans. Even the Model 3, and similar class cars (Camry and Accord), are dwarfed in popularity by "crossovers." There's no fat left to trim off the Model 3 platform, but its price is already close enough to Camry/Accord/Sonata territory. Building a Civic competitor just isn't strategically important (although small cars are much more popular outside the U.S.).

Granted you could read the tea leaves and ask how does Tesla envision growing into a top 8 (much less top 3) global automaker. The only way is by having more high volume sellers, but a compact sedan was never part of that formula anyhow.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,406
1,588
136
How do you cancel something that didn't even exist? :p

Tbh the rumored Model 2 isn't relevant to anything. There is little market in the U.S. for compact sedans. Even the Model 3, and similar class cars (Camry and Accord), are dwarfed in popularity by "crossovers." There's no fat left to trim off the Model 3 platform, but its price is already close enough to Camry/Accord/Sonata territory. Building a Civic competitor just isn't strategically important (although small cars are much more popular outside the U.S.).

Granted you could read the tea leaves and ask how does Tesla envision growing into a top 8 (much less top 3) global automaker. The only way is by having more high volume sellers, but a compact sedan was never part of that formula anyhow.

There is plenty of room for a compact sedan in markets outside the US (China and Europe) for Tesla to sell to.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,379
33,796
136
How do you cancel something that didn't even exist? :p

Tbh the rumored Model 2 isn't relevant to anything. There is little market in the U.S. for compact sedans. Even the Model 3, and similar class cars (Camry and Accord), are dwarfed in popularity by "crossovers." There's no fat left to trim off the Model 3 platform, but its price is already close enough to Camry/Accord/Sonata territory. Building a Civic competitor just isn't strategically important (although small cars are much more popular outside the U.S.).

Granted you could read the tea leaves and ask how does Tesla envision growing into a top 8 (much less top 3) global automaker. The only way is by having more high volume sellers, but a compact sedan was never part of that formula anyhow.

That it is not strategically important to produce a vehicle at a size and price point the rest of the planet might be interested in is certainly a point of view.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,379
33,796
136
Elmo posted on Titter that Reuters is lying again. It should would be nice is Tesla actually had a PR department to handle things like this instead of a manchild sitting on the crapper. Who knows what is going on......

It's probably not "canceled" just delayed indefinitely lol.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,193
2,272
136
There is plenty of room for a compact sedan in markets outside the US (China and Europe) for Tesla to sell to.
I don't think China is relevant because there are too many low cost options there for Tesla to battle. The Toyota Corolla did sell over 1M units annually, so that's a sizable addressable market. To move a few hundred thousand compact sedans annually, Tesla would have to accept a lower profit margin than they're used to. Arguably the Model 2 would cannibalize the low end of Model 3 sales.

They're better off trying to launch a compact CUV for < $34k.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,406
1,588
136
I don't think China is relevant because there are too many low cost options there for Tesla to battle. The Toyota Corolla did sell over 1M units annually, so that's a sizable addressable market. To move a few hundred thousand compact sedans annually, Tesla would have to accept a lower profit margin than they're used to. Arguably the Model 2 would cannibalize the low end of Model 3 sales.

They're better off trying to launch a compact CUV for < $34k.

They already kind of have launched a compact <$34k CUV in the US with the Model Y RWD after the POS tax credit. Tesla moved over 1M+ Model Y units worldwide in 2023.
Even if you want to claim China isn't relevant which I disagree with. There is plenty of options outside of China for Tesla to move a compact EV sedan. Remember other auto-makers sell compact cars very successfully outside of the US and never bring those cars to the US market. I am thinking of the VW ID3.
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,193
2,272
136
They already kind of have launched a compact <$34k CUV in the US with the Model Y RWD after the POS tax credit. Tesla moved over 1M+ Model Y units worldwide in 2023.
Even if you want to claim China isn't relevant which I disagree with. There is plenty of options outside of China for Tesla to move a compact EV sedan. Remember other auto-makers sell compact cars very successfully outside of the US and never bring those cars to the US market. I am thinking of the VW ID3.
Tesla has done well in China thus far, but is also struggling with the lower margins it takes to compete there. If they're already not so happy selling $40k cars in China, how happy could they be cutting that down to $25k?

The fact they sold so many Model Ys actually buttresses my point. The Y, RAV4 and CR-V are all global top sellers. In this regard, the Corolla is both fantastically successful but also an outlier. It's the only car in its class in the top 10. The Model 3 is outside of the top 10.

I've already conceded that the U.S. market isn't the only big one, and European consumers have different preferences. Personally I drive only sedans, but I'm saying canceling vaporware that optimistically adds up to ~ 12% of Tesla's unit sales (and perhaps 5% of net profit) isn't that big of a deal.

I wouldn't disagree that Tesla ultimately needs more models up and down the product line to meet their lofty goals; but as of today, their bigger problem appears to be Elon's demand destruction among his core buyers. The #1 problem is probably how to make and sell 500k Cybertrucks annually, something that four years ago a lot of people assumed would be a piece of cake for them.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,406
1,588
136
Tesla has done well in China thus far, but is also struggling with the lower margins it takes to compete there. If they're already not so happy selling $40k cars in China, how happy could they be cutting that down to $25k?

The fact they sold so many Model Ys actually buttresses my point. The Y, RAV4 and CR-V are all global top sellers. In this regard, the Corolla is both fantastically successful but also an outlier. It's the only car in its class in the top 10. The Model 3 is outside of the top 10.

I've already conceded that the U.S. market isn't the only big one, and European consumers have different preferences. Personally I drive only sedans, but I'm saying canceling vaporware that optimistically adds up to ~ 12% of Tesla's unit sales (and perhaps 5% of net profit) isn't that big of a deal.

I wouldn't disagree that Tesla ultimately needs more models up and down the product line to meet their lofty goals; but as of today, their bigger problem appears to be Elon's demand destruction among his core buyers. The #1 problem is probably how to make and sell 500k Cybertrucks annually, something that four years ago a lot of people assumed would be a piece of cake for them.

Tesla sells the entry level Model 3 in China for below $35k USD. I have no doubt if Tesla wanted to they could sell a low end car at a price point of $25k in China from the Shanghai factory and sell it a profit. My point was that there is worldwide demand for a compact Sedan, especially a EV one. If that is the best use of Tesla engineers time I am not sure. I am not even sure if it is a worthwhile go for Tesla to pursue 10M+ units a year. I think they should focus on getting into the top 8 for car sales while growing the Tesla energy line of products.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,682
10,099
136
How do you cancel something that didn't even exist? :p

Tbh the rumored Model 2 isn't relevant to anything. There is little market in the U.S. for compact sedans. Even the Model 3, and similar class cars (Camry and Accord), are dwarfed in popularity by "crossovers." There's no fat left to trim off the Model 3 platform, but its price is already close enough to Camry/Accord/Sonata territory. Building a Civic competitor just isn't strategically important (although small cars are much more popular outside the U.S.).

Granted you could read the tea leaves and ask how does Tesla envision growing into a top 8 (much less top 3) global automaker. The only way is by having more high volume sellers, but a compact sedan was never part of that formula anyhow.
Nice thing about EVs is you can put full size sedan space in a compact sedan package. My Bolt EUV hasmuch more leg room than the Legacy it replaced and is like 20” shorter. Bolts really had no issue selling.
 
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Jun 18, 2000
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Even in the US small cars can sell >100k units if they are competitive. And with arguably the worst market for small cars in the world.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,406
1,588
136
Even in the US small cars can sell >100k units if they are competitive. And with arguably the worst market for small cars in the world.

If Tesla can sell a reasonable $25k compact car(Something like the Bolt or the Leaf) in the US and you couple that with the $7500 POS Federal EV Tax credit(Assuming it meets the source requirements) and various state incentives. I think the lower end could be 100k units a year.
 
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