Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,156
21,282
136
If I want to pass on wealth to my children that is my decision not the government or you to decide and judge what I can do and not do with my wealth.
You are basically saying here that the government can't do anything about your wealth. So people can just say fuck you I'm not paying taxes period? That's not how it works, why should it work that way in this situation just because you want it to? Why should this be an exception? What is the actual argument here.

I remember hearing a great NPR segment, and one or two of the heirs of a huge business - something like Heinz or something else that big, were arguing that it's completely not right the amount of wealth they are set to inherit with so little contribution back to society, it's clearly stacked for the wealthy and super fucked up. I think the Disney heiress says the same thing.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,303
13,917
136
I disagree, I think we need to make it possible to encourage generational wealth transfers not reduce them. Allowing a step-up-basis in assets as they are transferred helps encourage this intergenerational transfer of wealth which is important tool in building a families wealth. Especially for assets that have been held for a long time. For example, parents own a house and they both pass away. That house was worth $500k when they passed away and that wealth can then be transferred over to their children. The fact that the children can do a step-up basis when selling the house will allow them to keep more of that equity within the family. Another example from my family. My grandfather worked for SDGE for 40+ years and spent decades purchasing SDGE stock a couple of shares at a time through payroll deductions starting in the 1940's. Started out sweeping the floor in 1939 and eventually retired as a supervisor. There was no way for us to reconcile the cost basis for the stock that he purchased because it had been done so long ago and over such a long time. My grandparents used the dividends from the stock to supplement Social Security and his pension when they retired. After they both passed this stock then transferred to my Mom as part of the inheritance and my Mom was easily able to sell the stock based on the step-up-basis. My Mom was then able to pay off her house and she made large deposits into my children's 529 accounts to help pay for college. Let's let the government focus on how to tax the wealthy instead of trying to grab more money from middle class families to pay for more tax breaks for the wealthy.
"Fuck you, got mine (from my parents)"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
Well, benefiting to some degree from your parent's success is a time honored tradition. And, IMHO, is very reasonable as many parents hope to pass on to their children greater financial stability. That said, wrt to taxes, the allowed limits w/o taxes is getting very high - and this when people are having less children. So a reset in taxes on wealth transfers, capital gains as normal income and a truly progressive tax system would all help even out our silly system designed to benefit the top 10% of wage earners instead of the bottom 90%. And, at this point, not designed to fund the government to as reasonable a degree as possible. I really don't understand what is wrong with someone being taxed at 70¢ on the dollar for the portion of income that's over $1M.
But nobody is saying parents should be prohibited from passing on assets to their kids, just that the rest of society should not essentially fund it through tax breaks for doing so.

If you want to pass on all your stocks to your kids, great. Have at it! The only thing I'm arguing against is that when you do that their tax rate should be the same as you would have paid and not 0%.
If I want to pass on wealth to my children that is my decision not the government or you to decide and judge what I can do and not do with my wealth.
I agree! Nobody is stopping you from doing whatever you want with it. Where we seem to part ways is you are arguing that you and your family should get special tax privileges for you sitting on the assets until you die and I don’t.

The taxes on the sale of that asset should be the same no matter which one of you sells it.
I disagree. Let's let the government focus on how to tax the wealthy instead of trying to grab more money from middle class families to pay for more tax breaks for the wealthy.
The best part here is that closing the step up loophole WOULD be taxing the wealthy! They are by far the biggest beneficiaries of it, after all.

Again, if you would like to make a public policy argument for why this (simplified) scenario is good I’m open to hearing it:

1) Parents want to buy item X for their kid and it costs $100,000.

2) Parents do this while they are alive by selling $100,000 in long term capital gains, incurring a tax bill of $15,000.

3) Parents wait until they die and kid buys it with inheritance, incurring a tax bill of $0.

Why is number 3 superior to number 2?
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
But nobody is saying parents should be prohibited from passing on assets to their kids, just that the rest of society should not essentially fund it through tax breaks for doing so.

If you want to pass on all your stocks to your kids, great. Have at it! The only thing I'm arguing against is that when you do that their tax rate should be the same as you would have paid and not 0%.
So, no max limit of wealth passed on with 0% tax rate. Folks leave you $1M, you pay full income tax on that? Sucks a bit as I want a truly progressive tax system :p.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
So, no max limit of wealth passed on with 0% tax rate. Folks leave you $1M, you pay full income tax on that? Sucks a bit as I want a truly progressive tax system :p.
That would be a truly progressive tax system!
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,303
13,917
136
So, no max limit of wealth passed on with 0% tax rate. Folks leave you $1M, you pay full income tax on that? Sucks a bit as I want a truly progressive tax system :p.
Are we talking about estate tax, inheritance tax, or something different? :p
Estate tax was only applicable for amounts above $5-6 million from 2011 to 2017, and gosh, for some weird reason it jumped up to $11 million in 2018.
 
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kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,018
1,324
136
But nobody is saying parents should be prohibited from passing on assets to their kids, just that the rest of society should not essentially fund it through tax breaks for doing so.

If you want to pass on all your stocks to your kids, great. Have at it! The only thing I'm arguing against is that when you do that their tax rate should be the same as you would have paid and not 0%.

I agree! Nobody is stopping you from doing whatever you want with it. Where we seem to part ways is you are arguing that you and your family should get special tax privileges for you sitting on the assets until you die and I don’t.

The taxes on the sale of that asset should be the same no matter which one of you sells it.

The best part here is that closing the step up loophole WOULD be taxing the wealthy! They are by far the biggest beneficiaries of it, after all.

Again, if you would like to make a public policy argument for why this (simplified) scenario is good I’m open to hearing it:

1) Parents want to buy item X for their kid and it costs $100,000.

2) Parents do this while they are alive by selling $100,000 in long term capital gains, incurring a tax bill of $15,000.

3) Parents wait until they die and kid buys it with inheritance, incurring a tax bill of $0.

Why is number 3 superior to number 2?
You forgot something.

4) Profit!!!
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,157
11,031
136
Are we talking about estate tax, inheritance tax, or something different? :p
Estate tax was only applicable for amounts above $5-6 million from 2011 to 2017, and gosh, for some weird reason it jumped up to $11 million in 2018.
But I thought death taxes applied equally to all Americans!! /S
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,363
13,691
146
Alternative viewpoint:

Generational wealth is based in the fear that the child won't be cared for after the death of the parent unless their money is available to that child after death. If a society was sufficiently capable in caring for it's citizens to inspire trust in the populace, less importance would be put on money (with the exception of addicts) and there'd be less hoarding of wealth by those who feel like their children will need a leg up financially.

In other words, fucking tax the rich and get that shit into social programs that matter.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
Alternative viewpoint:

Generational wealth is based in the fear that the child won't be cared for after the death of the parent unless their money is available to that child after death. If a society was sufficiently capable in caring for it's citizens to inspire trust in the populace, less importance would be put on money (with the exception of addicts) and there'd be less hoarding of wealth by those who feel like their children will need a leg up financially.

In other words, fucking tax the rich and get that shit into social programs that matter.
I’m sorry but the reason for the step up tax loophole is not because middle class people fear for their children. It’s because rich people don’t want to pay taxes.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,321
9,175
136
Passing on unlimited amounts of generational wealth is how you get situations like Paris Hilton and the fucking Kardashians. Well, maybe some dick sucking on camera too, but you get the point.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,363
13,691
146
I’m sorry but the reason for the step up tax loophole is not because middle class people fear for their children. It’s because rich people don’t want to pay taxes.
The rich would be the addicts I was referring to. If money means little because all needs are met by society, only the addicts will hoard gold. You tax those ones into oblivion.
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
Dead people have no rights and no property. If you want to give money to your children while you live, have at it. Tax that wealth!
But that money was already taxed when it was earned originally. So dumb to want to tax it again. Put yourself in the shoes of someone getting that money, you're just dealing with your parents dying, the least bit of comfort is knowing you get a bit of money. Now you want the government to tax it? That's a huge kick in the face while someone is already down. Not to mention lot of that money often goes towards the funeral arrangements so if you tax it it could very well mean there is not enough left so now family have to pay for some of that stuff out of pocket.

What is with the obsession with wanting to punish people who may end up with "easy" money? Such a dumb way to look at things.

If anything we need less taxes. Every damn thing under the sun is taxed. by the time you figure out all the taxes you pay, about 75% of the money you earn is taxed in some way shape or form. It's ridiculous. We need less taxes, and a more streamlined and more efficient government. Not more. What Elon Musk did to Twitter needs to happen to the government. Slash that shit down to like 10% of what it is now. It's grown too big and inefficient. It's a parasite.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,586
2,946
136
But that money was already taxed when it was earned originally. So dumb to want to tax it again. Put yourself in the shoes of someone getting that money, you're just dealing with your parents dying, the least bit of comfort is knowing you get a bit of money. Now you want the government to tax it? That's a huge kick in the face while someone is already down. Not to mention lot of that money often goes towards the funeral arrangements so if you tax it it could very well mean there is not enough left so now family have to pay for some of that stuff out of pocket.

What is with the obsession with wanting to punish people who may end up with "easy" money? Such a dumb way to look at things.
Wtf? No.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,321
9,175
136
But that money was already taxed when it was earned originally. So dumb to want to tax it again. Put yourself in the shoes of someone getting that money, you're just dealing with your parents dying, the least bit of comfort is knowing you get a bit of money. Now you want the government to tax it? That's a huge kick in the face while someone is already down. Not to mention lot of that money often goes towards the funeral arrangements so if you tax it it could very well mean there is not enough left so now family have to pay for some of that stuff out of pocket.

What is with the obsession with wanting to punish people who may end up with "easy" money? Such a dumb way to look at things.

If anything we need less taxes. Every damn thing under the sun is taxed. by the time you figure out all the taxes you pay, about 75% of the money you earn is taxed in some way shape or form. It's ridiculous. We need less taxes, and a more streamlined and more efficient government. Not more. What Elon Musk did to Twitter needs to happen to the government. Slash that shit down to like 10% of what it is now. It's grown too big and inefficient. It's a parasite.

By that logic money can only ever be taxed once. Every subsequent transfer can be shot down since "it's already been taxed".
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,478
9,380
136
But that money was already taxed when it was earned originally. So dumb to want to tax it again. Put yourself in the shoes of someone getting that money, you're just dealing with your parents dying, the least bit of comfort is knowing you get a bit of money. Now you want the government to tax it? That's a huge kick in the face while someone is already down. Not to mention lot of that money often goes towards the funeral arrangements so if you tax it it could very well mean there is not enough left so now family have to pay for some of that stuff out of pocket.

What is with the obsession with wanting to punish people who may end up with "easy" money? Such a dumb way to look at things.

If anything we need less taxes. Every damn thing under the sun is taxed. by the time you figure out all the taxes you pay, about 75% of the money you earn is taxed in some way shape or form. It's ridiculous. We need less taxes, and a more streamlined and more efficient government. Not more. What Elon Musk did to Twitter needs to happen to the government. Slash that shit down to like 10% of what it is now. It's grown too big and inefficient. It's basically a black hole that causes more problems than it solves.
Wut? You're getting free money. If its taxed you get a bit less free money. At no point are you worse off for getting the free money! (The free money that you did nothing to earn)
I sometimes thing that you, specifically, need to step back, take a deep breath, and stop getting triggered by every story that doesn't concern you on the internet. You seem (and I'm not trying to be a dick here) fairly unworldly and put far too much emphasis on stuff that allegedly happened to some guy, somewhere else that some guy told you about on the internet.

What exactly has Elon done that you like with Twitter? He's tanked the worth of the company, he's censoring it far more than it was before at the request of totalitarian regimes, he's possibly going to get it banned in a lot of companies because he has to control over i
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,739
26,901
136
But that money was already taxed when it was earned originally. So dumb to want to tax it again. Put yourself in the shoes of someone getting that money, you're just dealing with your parents dying, the least bit of comfort is knowing you get a bit of money. Now you want the government to tax it? That's a huge kick in the face while someone is already down. Not to mention lot of that money often goes towards the funeral arrangements so if you tax it it could very well mean there is not enough left so now family have to pay for some of that stuff out of pocket.

What is with the obsession with wanting to punish people who may end up with "easy" money? Such a dumb way to look at things.

If anything we need less taxes. Every damn thing under the sun is taxed. by the time you figure out all the taxes you pay, about 75% of the money you earn is taxed in some way shape or form. It's ridiculous. We need less taxes, and a more streamlined and more efficient government. Not more. What Elon Musk did to Twitter needs to happen to the government. Slash that shit down to like 10% of what it is now. It's grown too big and inefficient. It's a parasite.
How to tell us you don’t understand money and tax policy without using those words.

Also for someone who bitches about the “elites” you sure like breaking your back carrying their water when it comes to tax policy.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
It might be "free" (losing a parent is a pretty big price to pay to get it) but it's a gift and should not be taxed, why would you want it taxed? I don't understand you people how you actually want MORE taxes when we're already overly taxed to begin with. Let people enjoy money that comes their way so it can actually go into the economy instead of a black hole. If you guys had your way you'd probably want birthday card money to be taxed too lol.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
How to tell us you don’t understand money and tax policy without using those words.

Also for someone who bitches about the “elites” you sure like breaking your back carrying their water when it comes to tax policy.

Not understanding, and being against is two different things. I understand it, but absolutely do not agree with it at all. We simply pay too much. You think elites are affected by this? They are not. It's the middle class that suffers.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,739
26,901
136
It might be "free" (losing a parent is a pretty big price to pay to get it) but it's a gift and should not be taxed, why would you want it taxed? I don't understand you people how you actually want MORE taxes when we're already overly taxed to begin with. Let people enjoy money that comes their way so it can actually go into the economy instead of a black hole. If you guys had your way you'd probably want birthday card money to be taxed too lol.
Yes we are all calling for the $20 check from grandma to be taxed.

Lordy
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,739
26,901
136
Not understanding, and being against is two different things. I understand it, but absolutely do not agree with it at all. We simply pay too much. You think elites are affected by this? They are not. It's the middle class that suffers.
Thank you for proving my point.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
Should be simple, any time money changes hands, it’s taxed. Don’t like taxes? Then kindly remove yourself from society.
Such a retarded take. Again why are you people obsessed with taking money away from people? It just makes no sense that you actually WANT this. Do you not realize that this would affect you too?