Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
15,449
136
This is your problem. You are unable to judge “what is being pushed”.

Apparently taxes are a deterrent, nevermind that there has never been a increase in unemployment when taxes went up, nor has the economy ever declined during such time.

Lol @The great reset! What a fucking brainwashed idiot.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,030
13,539
136
Are you serious?! You think people are not entitled to the money they worked for?! So what do you want, actual communism? Because that's what it sounds like. Not sure what the rest of that word salad is.

There would be no incentive to work if people were not entitled to keep their money so everything we have, well who would actually build it? The higher the taxes are the less people want to work, because why bother if the government gets most of it. Inflation also goes out of control as companies need to charge more to compensate for taxes. Nobody benefits from higher taxes. If you think it means more services and "free" stuff I have a free government funded bridge and lake front property in the sahara desert to give you, comes with several butlers that do everything for free.

Also be careful what you wish for, because when they roll out CBDC that's exactly how it's going to work, you will not be able to save money as the funds will expire. Is this really what you want? Chrystia Freeland even hinted that she wants to do that. It's a completely insane way of thinking or governing and I hope next election the liberals are ousted because they are getting more and more radical. It's why I am strongly against the great reset and agenda 2030 as the goal is for us to be under very tight grip of government and own nothing, so not being allowed to save money could very well be part of that. They may even start to go after land because they will see that as "tied up money". They're already doing it to farmers in the Netherlands.

If you want more taxes you are free to pay more, the government does take donations.

That is the dumbest shit I've ever read.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,268
29,013
136
No the dumbest thing is complaining at people "hoarding" their own damn money that they worked hard for.
What labor specifically did Elon perform that warrants payment of hundreds of billions of dollars? Capitalism is just one system of allocating resources. Taxation is another. Neither are inherently moral, natural, or preordained.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,531
12,648
126
www.anyf.ca
What labor specifically did Elon perform that warrants payment of hundreds of billions of dollars? Capitalism is just one system of allocating resources. Taxation is another. Neither are inherently moral, natural, or preordained.

Some people do get easy mode in life and don't need to work as hard but still make lot of money, not everything is fair. But I'm talking about regular folk here who actually work. Ex: most boomers that people in the past few pages of this thread seem to be demonizing. To the government, if you own a house and have a job that pays more than minimum wage, you're basically rich, so anyone asking for policies that attack rich people would also attack people just trying to make ends meet and have a decent quality of life and property they can enjoy.

If you want to go after ultra rich people what should be done is getting rid of tax loopholes so that they pay the same rate as we do. Trump pays less taxes in a year than we pay in a single pay cheque. We don't need more taxes we need to fix the existing system.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,157
11,031
136
Some people do get easy mode in life and don't need to work as hard but still make lot of money, not everything is fair. But I'm talking about regular folk here who actually work. Ex: most boomers that people in the past few pages of this thread seem to be demonizing. To the government, if you own a house and have a job that pays more than minimum wage, you're basically rich, so anyone asking for policies that attack rich people would also attack people just trying to make ends meet and have a decent quality of life and property they can enjoy.

If you want to go after ultra rich people what should be done is getting rid of tax loopholes so that they pay the same rate as we do. Trump pays less taxes in a year than we pay in a single pay cheque. We don't need more taxes we need to fix the existing system.
Lol what fraction of those poor rich people - homeowners with incomes exceeding above minimum wage - also have incomes in the 8+ figure range and wealth values in the 9+ figure range?
Maybe we should also make additional tax brackets to make America great again, seeing has the highest marginal tax rates were 94% in the 1940s.

Which is to say, dollars earned above ~$7.8M (200k in 1944 dollars) were taxed at 94%, not all 7.8M. just in case you need a refresher on progressive taxation ;)
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,268
29,013
136
Some people do get easy mode in life and don't need to work as hard but still make lot of money, not everything is fair. But I'm talking about regular folk here who actually work. Ex: most boomers that people in the past few pages of this thread seem to be demonizing. To the government, if you own a house and have a job that pays more than minimum wage, you're basically rich, so anyone asking for policies that attack rich people would also attack people just trying to make ends meet and have a decent quality of life and property they can enjoy.

If you want to go after ultra rich people what should be done is getting rid of tax loopholes so that they pay the same rate as we do. Trump pays less taxes in a year than we pay in a single pay cheque. We don't need more taxes we need to fix the existing system.
You're choosing to lump the middle class and the rich. By defending the tax structure, you are helping the rich continue to ream you. Folks bitch about the U.S. federal inheritance tax yet the tax only applies to estates in excess of $12.92 million dollars. The rich we are discussing are vastly richer than the middle class and they got that way, in part, because of horribad tax policy.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,030
13,539
136
Are you serious?! You think people are not entitled to the money they worked for?! So what do you want, actual communism? Because that's what it sounds like. Not sure what the rest of that word salad is.

There would be no incentive to work if people were not entitled to keep their money so everything we have, well who would actually build it? The higher the taxes are the less people want to work, because why bother if the government gets most of it. Inflation also goes out of control as companies need to charge more to compensate for taxes. Nobody benefits from higher taxes. If you think it means more services and "free" stuff I have a free government funded bridge and lake front property in the sahara desert to give you, comes with several butlers that do everything for free.

Also be careful what you wish for, because when they roll out CBDC that's exactly how it's going to work, you will not be able to save money as the funds will expire. Is this really what you want? Chrystia Freeland even hinted that she wants to do that. It's a completely insane way of thinking or governing and I hope next election the liberals are ousted because they are getting more and more radical. It's why I am strongly against the great reset and agenda 2030 as the goal is for us to be under very tight grip of government and own nothing, so not being allowed to save money could very well be part of that. They may even start to go after land because they will see that as "tied up money". They're already doing it to farmers in the Netherlands.

If you want more taxes you are free to pay more, the government does take donations.

The dumbest shit ever is not understanding the context of your current situation.

"This is MY money and taxes is stealing my fucking money".
- This is by idiots like you who dont understand why money has worth to begin with.

Listen the fuck up Francis. You dont gr0k money. You dont. You simply dont. Start educating yourself cause I sure as fuck dont have the patience to spoon feed you.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,030
13,539
136
Some people do get easy mode in life and don't need to work as hard but still make lot of money, not everything is fair. But I'm talking about regular folk here who actually work. Ex: most boomers that people in the past few pages of this thread seem to be demonizing. To the government, if you own a house and have a job that pays more than minimum wage, you're basically rich, so anyone asking for policies that attack rich people would also attack people just trying to make ends meet and have a decent quality of life and property they can enjoy.

If you want to go after ultra rich people what should be done is getting rid of tax loopholes so that they pay the same rate as we do. Trump pays less taxes in a year than we pay in a single pay cheque. We don't need more taxes we need to fix the existing system.
See? That's not super dumb. Proud of you.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,688
1,962
136
If you want to go after ultra rich people what should be done is getting rid of tax loopholes so that they pay the same rate as we do. Trump pays less taxes in a year than we pay in a single pay cheque. We don't need more taxes we need to fix the existing system.

Once you move your income away from a W-2 it is amazing what can be done with proper tax planning to use the current tax law to minimize taxes owed.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,018
1,324
136
The biggest threat to the capitalist system is people hoarding the money supply. Capitalism depends on the money supply circulating not being hoarded.
I think @Red Squirrel does not understand the difference between "hoarding" and "saving". He thinks it's the same even though every single one of us has been telling him hoarding is not saving. Maybe he should watch the TV show "Hoarders" to realize how unhealthy it is to hoard stuff, including money.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,688
1,962
136
What labor specifically did Elon perform that warrants payment of hundreds of billions of dollars? Capitalism is just one system of allocating resources. Taxation is another. Neither are inherently moral, natural, or preordained.

If you invest say $20k of your money in a new EV startup company in 2010 called Tesla Motors when it went IPO. Now that investment would be worth about $3M what specific labor did you perform to warrant earning $3M?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,268
29,013
136
If you invest say $20k of your money in a new EV startup company in 2010 called Tesla Motors when it went IPO. Now that investment would be worth about $3M what specific labor did you perform to warrant earning $3M?
That's my point. The capitalist system allocates the fruits of labor in a manner that benefits the wealthy all out of proportion to their contribution to society. Taxation of wealth is method to counter-balance the defects of the capitalist system.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,688
1,962
136
That's my point. The capitalist system allocates the fruits of labor in a manner that benefits the wealthy all out of proportion to their contribution to society. Taxation of wealth is method to counter-balance the defects of the capitalist system.

So if someone labors and saves up and invests $20k in the stock market you think they haven't contributed to society?
 
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WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,478
9,380
136
So if someone labors and saves up and invests $20k in the stock market you think they haven't contributed to society?
You can argue that if that stock doubles in value that that person hasn't really added that value to the economy.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,478
9,380
136
So no value in someone willing to risk their capital in investing?
It depends. Are they contributing as much as the people who design and make the products?
I mean once the shares are released any subsequent sales don't really help the company that much.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,268
29,013
136
So if someone labors and saves up and invests $20k in the stock market you think they haven't contributed to society?
What happened to the $3 million you wrote about? That $3 million came from someone else's labor, not the investor's.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,287
5,725
146
I think @Red Squirrel does not understand the difference between "hoarding" and "saving". He thinks it's the same even though every single one of us has been telling him hoarding is not saving. Maybe he should watch the TV show "Hoarders" to realize how unhealthy it is to hoard stuff, including money.

But Elon and other rich guys are telling him its good that they steal money from him for themselves, its really their money! That's the dumbest aspect. Rich people have 1000% gamed political system to redistribute wealth to themselves and convince idiots like him that its their money.

What's even more laughable though is he's been an ardent Christian that clearly has never actually read the goddamn bible since it explicitly says the behavior he's defending now would prevent one from getting into Heaven. It says that in about as plain of language as is ever used in the Bible, leaving no room for interpretation. And yes, I know modern evangelicals have completely distorted their own brains to believe that if they're rich its because of their god's providence and not because of their wantonly, often openly evil, behavior. But the Bible does not mince words when it comes to rich amassing wealth.

Lastly, I don't know why you guys insist on feeding the trolls. Now, sure, he's not a typical troll in that he does genuinely believe the incredibly stupid things he constantly says, but that is not any better and you're not going to make any change to his thinking nor are you going to get any enjoyment out of his antics (or any meltdown like other trolls that get duped into this shit because they at least had some self awareness and enough intelligence to feel shame such that their own brains couldn't handle how full of shit they were). His belief system literally is that any pushback he receives on anything makes him more correct and its then his obligation to keep pushing his idiocy. You do more to stifle it by ignoring it then you do by partaking in it.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,675
8,579
136
So if someone labors and saves up and invests $20k in the stock market you think they haven't contributed to society?


The argument would be that they made the right choice so as to efficiently allocate resources. The reward was for making that right choice.

This is getting into a fundamental argument over whether wealth is produced by those who actually do the work, or if it's down to those who make the right strategic choices as to what work should be done. (Which is really, I think, at the heart of the dispute between capitalism and socialism).

But the stock market is (supposedly) about 'investment'. i.e. allocating money to fund productive enterprises. The same does not really apply if it's a matter of rent-seeking, i.e. just buying something that already exists and waiting for its value to increase, most specifically land and housing. An awful lot of wealth - particularly of the infamous Boomers - comes from just that - sitting on an asset that isn't being used to produce anything else, and waiting for its value to increase. Land being the most glaring example (as Henry George - who was both a supporter and a critic of capitalism - and the game "Monopoly" pointed out).
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,221
18,686
146
Contributing to society via stock investment only occurs if the company grows and is taxed appropriately. If those two things aren’t happening, then you’re investment, regardless of how savvy, isn’t worth shit to anyone in the gen pop
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
136
Contributing to society via stock investment only occurs if the company grows and is taxed appropriately. If those two things aren’t happening, then you’re investment, regardless of how savvy, isn’t worth shit to anyone in the gen pop
The fundamental problem with capitalism is that it is fertile ground for extremist wealth disparity and greed. Our political system should ensure, by law, that excessive greed is punished, wealth disparity is kept in check and taxation is fair. What we would call well regulated capitalism. This was working just fine 70 years ago. Then those who benefited the most from our system realized in the 70s and 80s that they could by influence in congress, hire a bazillion lobbyists, buy commercial time and start 'expert' institutes to flood the zone (media) with FUD.

Unwinding this would probably required another Great Depression and a strong leader like FDR.