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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,237
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Something like 60-70% of all US housing units are single family homes. Though apartment livers and those without dedicated parking will face some hurdles as charging infrastructure deploys, I don't think it's the barrier that people make it out to be.

And as an apartment dweller, I've seen at least a handful of EVs in the garage of my building. They just plug them into the standard 120V outlets that are scattered throughout the garage. It may not be super fast, but as the Youtuber TechnologyConnections correctly points out, you can get 50+ miles of range per night, which is more than enough for the typical everyday driving.

We picked our current building in part because of the shared L2 chargers in the garage (fairly generous 10 heads for about 60 units) but could definitely live with L1 charging based on our daily patterns.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
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Something like 60-70% of all US housing units are single family homes. Though apartment livers and those without dedicated parking will face some hurdles as charging infrastructure deploys, I don't think it's the barrier that people make it out to be.

And as an apartment dweller, I've seen at least a handful of EVs in the garage of my building. They just plug them into the standard 120V outlets that are scattered throughout the garage. It may not be super fast, but as the Youtuber TechnologyConnections correctly points out, you can get 50+ miles of range per night, which is more than enough for the typical everyday driving.

And how many of those homes have the electrical infrastructure to support "real" home charging? Of the remainder, how many can afford/install an upgrade?
 
Dec 10, 2005
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And how many of those homes have the electrical infrastructure to support "real" home charging? Of the remainder, how many can afford/install an upgrade?
Those homes can't support a 110V outlet or split a higher voltage line with a dryer?
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
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Those homes can't support a 110V outlet or split a higher voltage line with a dryer?

Was talking more about the service or panel limitations. What if they have 40A or similar? I would think that code would be an issue in a ton of those situations.

Not everyone has 200A.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,094
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Was talking more about the service or panel limitations. What if they have 40A or similar? I would think that code would be an issue in a ton of those situations.

Not everyone has 200A.
Sure, if someone needs to actually upgrade their panel, that can certainly be a cost. But I'm sure that many people with dedicated parking at their home would have access to the minimum of a 120V outlet that can provide 15A. It will be slow, but can easily cover average daily driving with charging every night or every other night.

And if someone has a nearby 240V outlet in their garage, it seems like there are even devices that let you split/share the outlet without needing to add any new wiring: https://www.amazon.com/NeoCharge-Amp-Smart-Splitter-Electrician/dp/B09QPMHGX1
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
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Sure, if someone needs to actually upgrade their panel, that can certainly be a cost. But I'm sure that many people with dedicated parking at their home would have access to the minimum of a 120V outlet that can provide 15A. It will be slow, but can easily cover average daily driving with charging every night or every other night.

And if someone has a nearby 240V outlet in their garage, it seems like there are even devices that let you split/share the outlet without needing to add any new wiring: https://www.amazon.com/NeoCharge-Amp-Smart-Splitter-Electrician/dp/B09QPMHGX1

So, minimum $350 cost and assumes that garage and dryer are anywhere close to each other.

It's all a hurdle. That's the point.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
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So, minimum $350 cost and assumes that garage and dryer are anywhere close to each other.

It's all a hurdle. That's the point.
If someone is buying a new electric car right now, $350 isn't going to make them throw up their hands and say "forget the whole thing."

And there is always that fallback option of using a standard outlet...

It's all a hurdle, but that's the nature of being on the front of the adoption curve. My point though is that the hurdle isn't as large as people like to make it out to be.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
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I'm as much here to Punch Musk as the next guy, but we really shouldn't let wishful thinking, cloud actual thinking.

Tesla's share of the overall market continues to grow, they have been increasing annual sales something 40%/year, every year, for many years on end, and there is little sign of that stopping.

They haven't had a new model in years, but their models are compelling enough keep increasing sales.

Their recent presentation was all about their next, MUCH less expensive next generation product. No idea when this lands, but it looks like a potential bombshell when it does.

While I think the 20 million sales/year is a fantasy, there is little chance they are going to wither and become irrelevant anytime in the foreseeable future.
I don't think Tesla is going to die either, but right now they are getting a huge benefit from supply side economics. There isn't anywhere near enough supply for the demand, so prices go up and the willingness for people to "settle" also goes way up. As other options actually become available, I have my doubts people will be chumping at the bit to pay $65K for an 11 year-old design when they can get a new KIA/Hyundai design for $40K.

It doesn't seem like Tesla is even thinking about going to a normal model refresh/redesign cycle, nor really expanding their product offers in a significant way. Once demand can be met from other competitors their sells will likely drop unless they start acting like a normal car company.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,340
5,464
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Was talking more about the service or panel limitations. What if they have 40A or similar? I would think that code would be an issue in a ton of those situations.

Not everyone has 200A.

I would bet 40A panel or similar, is a rounding error above zero.

I'm in a small old bungalow right now, that likely has the old original panel, with it's screw in fuses, and even it has a 100 amp panel.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
Most people don't charge their EV during peak times and a lot of home EV charging can be time shifted to off peak times. I charge mine between 2400-0600 because that is when I have the lowest rates for charging. How did the electrical grid ever adjust to when people started adding home AC?

What percentage of new US car sales do EV's have to be, before it is no longer a niche market?
My FIL spent a couple years doing nothing but upgrading people's home electric for ACs when he was a young electrician. That was a huge load added to the grid over a short time period.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,282
10,879
136
So, minimum $350 cost and assumes that garage and dryer are anywhere close to each other.

It's all a hurdle. That's the point.
Chevy will install a 220 plug for you for "free" right now. If you are buying a $30k car, $300 for a plug isn't a big deal.
 
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quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,105
674
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Sure, if someone needs to actually upgrade their panel, that can certainly be a cost. But I'm sure that many people with dedicated parking at their home would have access to the minimum of a 120V outlet that can provide 15A. It will be slow, but can easily cover average daily driving with charging every night or every other night.

And if someone has a nearby 240V outlet in their garage, it seems like there are even devices that let you split/share the outlet without needing to add any new wiring: https://www.amazon.com/NeoCharge-Amp-Smart-Splitter-Electrician/dp/B09QPMHGX1

Dang, you can get a "dumb" splitter for like $40. https://www.amazon.com/Splitter-TOVEN-RV-10-30P-Adapter-Electric/dp/B09MKCNFG9/
$399 seems excessive for mild convenience.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
9,170
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If someone is buying a new electric car right now, $350 isn't going to make them throw up their hands and say "forget the whole thing."

And there is always that fallback option of using a standard outlet...

It's all a hurdle, but that's the nature of being on the front of the adoption curve. My point though is that the hurdle isn't as large as people like to make it out to be.

Sure. But then that means that the full "60-70%" of houses probably aren't actually even capable of affording the EV price point. Which was the 2nd part of the original post.

We should just give up then. Gas cars forever.

Seriously yes this could be an issue for some but this ain’t going to the be make or break hurdle for someone buying an EV.

I never said we should give up. I said it was a niche market and will continue to be so for quite a while. We're at something like 1% of all cars/light trucks/etc are EV. That's a niche market.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,026
13,536
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As progressive as I am, I am gonna get the the next last diesel, probably Skoda something. Charging opportunities is just not viable yet in the subs.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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EVs are great to have if you don’t prefer to travel by car out of your city. They’re not yet practical for long trips.