Elon Musk named 2021 Time person of the year

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Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,334
5,452
136
This has been argued a lot, but borrowing against it and living off those loans should count as realization.

He's not though. He sold something like 10 Billion in stock, so he will have a big tax bill from that.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
He's not though. He sold something like 10 Billion in stock, so he will have a big tax bill from that.
This year. The last 10 he has lived a very nice 0.1% lifestyle on debt secured against his "unrealized" gains
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,334
5,452
136
Edge lords win edge lord prizes. News at 11.

Edit: Ok that was a flippant take, but I think the award is wasted on Musk. I think the *real* Person of the Year would be Joe Manchin (for almost single-handedly stalling the Dem agenda), Trump (for somehow galvanizing the GOP around his Big Lie when he should be persona non grata) or Greg Abbott (someone who could ultimately be considered responsible for overturning Roe V. Wade).

These are the people who single-handedly made the biggest difference in 2021 IMO.

To US politics, sure. But Musks impact in EVs and Rocketry extend beyond US politics.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,668
1,928
136
This has been argued a lot, but borrowing against it and living off those loans should count as realization.

I wouldn't disagree that the law should change and that doing loans should count as realization. Not sure how that would be implemented. However Musk is fully following current US Federal Tax Law by currently doing just that. There is nothing illegal with minimizing your taxes.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
I wouldn't disagree that the law should change and that doing loans should count as realization. Not sure how that would be implemented. However Musk is fully following current US Federal Tax Law by currently doing just that. There is nothing illegal with minimizing your taxes.
True and it’s also true that the capital gains tax rate Elon will pay is the product of pure f’in’ corruption. The corruption came before Elon but he will benefit greatly from it.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
On the abortion thing going on in Texas

I pointed this out before. When it comes to draconian laws like this he demures and says he prefers to stay out of politics, but then he sure weighs in on plenty of politics like taxes and other policy.

He is a giant hypocritical douche.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,668
1,928
136
I pointed this out before. When it comes to draconian laws like this he demures and says he prefers to stay out of politics, but then he sure weighs in on plenty of politics like taxes and other policy.

He is a giant hypocritical douche.

Have you considered that not everyone has the same viewpoint as you about Abortion and calling a law draconian is more of a matter of opinion? I don't blame him for wanting to stay out of the Abortion debate because of the extreme polarization on the subject.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,668
1,928
136
True and it’s also true that the capital gains tax rate Elon will pay is the product of pure f’in’ corruption. The corruption came before Elon but he will benefit greatly from it.

That is your opinion that having the capital gains tax rate lower than the income tax rate if pure corruption. I for one support having a lower capital gains tax rate for investment. I also appreciate the lower tax rate when I sell assets that I have held longer than 1-year.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,211
28,916
136
That is your opinion that having the capital gains tax rate lower than the income tax rate if pure corruption. I for one support having a lower capital gains tax rate for investment. I also appreciate the lower tax rate when I sell assets that I have held longer than 1-year.
Taxing passive income at a rate lower than earned income is ridiculous and is designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people. The wealthy pay politicians to keep it that way.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
Have you considered that not everyone has the same viewpoint as you about Abortion and calling a law draconian is more of a matter of opinion? I don't blame him for wanting to stay out of the Abortion debate because of the extreme polarization on the subject.

Two things you are completely missing here.

Have you considered that there are core fundamental issues where there is a right and a wrong? Did you think having a position on slavery on either side was just having an opinion? What about women getting the right to vote? What about civil rights? I can go on.

As far as Elon, he could give his stance on the abortion law from either side - pro or against. The entire point is he demurs and says he likes to avoid politics, which is total bullshit since he happily weighs in when it comes to his wealth and taxes and other topics.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
I still don't understand why Elon Musk got Person Of the Year this year. I mean, he really hasn't had a great year. His primary "accomplishments" for 2021 were:

1) Pumping up and crashing the price of Dogecoin by calling it a "hustle" on SNL
2) Blowing up a bunch of Starship prototypes
3) Missing Tesla sales goals because of supply chain issues
4) ...and missing the original launch date of the Cybertruck by a country mile.

Maybe they should have given it to him in 2019 instead?
 
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MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
Have you considered that not everyone has the same viewpoint as you about Abortion and calling a law draconian is more of a matter of opinion? I don't blame him for wanting to stay out of the Abortion debate because of the extreme polarization on the subject.

A law that literally legislates the most basic of all rights, the right to your own person, for women is draconian in ANY nation that isn't a theocratic shithole.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
Taxing passive income at a rate lower than earned income is ridiculous and is designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of working people. The wealthy pay politicians to keep it that way.

This is indisputable fact. What is opinion is whether someone thinks this is good or not. That is where opinion comes in.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
I still don't understand why Elon Musk got Person Of the Year this year. I mean, he really hasn't had a great year. His primary "accomplishments" for 2021 were:

1) Pumping up and crashing the price of Dogecoin by calling it a "hustle" on SNL
2) Blowing up a bunch of Starship prototypes
3) Missing Tesla sales goals because of supply chain issues
4) ...and missing the original launch date of the Cybertruck by a country mile.

Maybe they should have given it to him in 2019 instead?

It's basically who was in the news the most. It's not necessarily an honor and considering previous POY have been Hitler and Stalin (twice) I'd say they are spot on. If it was an award for doing something positive he wouldn't be in the top billion of choices.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,668
1,928
136
A law that literally legislates the most basic of all rights, the right to your own person, for women is draconian in ANY nation that isn't a theocratic shithole.

Some people would say that a law that assigns no value to a unborn child is also draconian.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,668
1,928
136
Two things you are completely missing here.

Have you considered that there are core fundamental issues where there is a right and a wrong? Did you think having a position on slavery on either side was just having an opinion? What about women getting the right to vote? What about civil rights? I can go on.

As far as Elon, he could give his stance on the abortion law from either side - pro or against. The entire point is he demurs and says he likes to avoid politics, which is total bullshit since he happily weighs in when it comes to his wealth and taxes and other topics.

I am not missing anything and your post just proves how polarizing abortion is in this country which is why he demurs about it. Abortion is a much more polarizing topic than taxes and government spending.

Unfortunately to many people have MDS (Musk Derangement Syndrome) around anything he does or say.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,086
21,204
136
I am not missing anything and your post just proves how polarizing abortion is in this country which is why he demurs about it. Abortion is a much more polarizing topic than taxes and government spending.

You are missing everything. Actually taxes and government spending these days are now associated with socialism and communism by the crazy party, so I'd say it's pretty damn polarizing.

Regardless, Musk pretends to be above the fray when it comes to politics but he has shown he is more than willing to talk about it when it comes to his money. If you want to be above the fray then do it, otherwise sometimes you got to talk about the tough subjects. Why should he get special treatment on tough subjects when he is lying about his stance on opining on politics?

There is no way around it, he is a hypocritical douchebag on these subjects. But keep on carrying his water for whatever reason.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
Some people would say that a law that assigns no value to a unborn child is also draconian.

The value of the fetus is completely irrelevant here. No one, born or "unborn" has the right to take away someone else's most intrinsic right, the right to their own person.
 

MichaelMay

Senior member
Jun 6, 2021
453
465
96
I am not missing anything and your post just proves how polarizing abortion is in this country which is why he demurs about it. Abortion is a much more polarizing topic than taxes and government spending.

Unfortunately to many people have MDS (Musk Derangement Syndrome) around anything he does or say.

So fucking what, if slavery is a very polarizing idea with many supporters does it mean that we should consider taking away people's rights to their own persons? Of fucking course not but making women literal slaves to a fetus and taking away their most basic right is somehow fine to legislate about.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,668
1,928
136
You are missing everything. Actually taxes and government spending these days are now associated with socialism and communism by the crazy party, so I'd say it's pretty damn polarizing.

Regardless, Musk pretends to be above the fray when it comes to politics but he has shown he is more than willing to talk about it when it comes to his money. If you want to be above the fray then do it, otherwise sometimes you got to talk about the tough subjects. Why should he get special treatment on tough subjects when he is lying about his stance on opining on politics?

There is no way around it, he is a hypocritical douchebag on these subjects. But keep on carrying his water for whatever reason.

Abortion is more polarizing because it deals with highly debatable discussion around when life begins and when a fetus becomes viable and a woman's rights versus the rights of the fetus. Tesla is not alone in staying out of that debate.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22660973/texas-abortion-lyft-att-godaddy-uber-bumble
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,852
2,807
136
This year. The last 10 he has lived a very nice 0.1% lifestyle on debt secured against his "unrealized" gains
And he's only selling off the shares because he has to exercise some very large options grants, so he needs the cash flow to pay the tax man. If there was no gargantuan tax liability, it's highly dubious he would have chosen to sell any blocks of shares.