Elementary student brings pot to school to turn in his parents

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qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,086
70
91
You can. However, when you're broke, have a cramp in your hand, and are hungary, who's going to feed you? Would you do the rest of society a favor and go into a cave and die? No, you won't. Therefore, should you ask anything of society society has the right to demand certain things from you.
Well, that would appear to explain why the government seems to prefer to have a large percentage of the population unemployed and on the tit.
 

chusteczka

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2006
3,399
3
71
So most think this kid was stupid for reporting a crime and should have just looked the other way?

Until marijuana is legalized, all of the idiotic comparisons to LEGAL consumption of alcohol and cigarettes is pointless.

I'll bite since this hints at the direction this conversation should be going. The problem is not with the kid's decision to inform on his parents. The problem is with governmental authority manipulating innocent children to inform on parental behavior. That is the problem and it is a huge step in the wrong direction for the government of this country.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
You can. However, when you're broke, have a cramp in your hand, and are hungary, who's going to feed you? Would you do the rest of society a favor and go into a cave and die? No, you won't. Therefore, should you ask anything of society society has the right to demand certain things from you.

Is the cave is the only place that lets me jack off to my hearts content? I got ironhand, no cramps here.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Government knows more than you. They represent more than you. Your will does not override those of society. If a man wants to squander his family's money on drugs and whores, would you tell him to go ahead or would you make him do the right thing for his family? Government is the latter. It focuses on the long term at the expense of the short.

There are very few people on this forum I hate more than you. Keep going, you're almost at the top of my list.
 

qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,086
70
91
I'll bite since this hints at the direction this conversation should be going. The problem is not with the kid's decision to inform on his parents. The problem is with governmental authority manipulating innocent children to inform on parental behavior. That is the problem and it is a huge step in the wrong direction for the government of this country.
Agreed. D.A.R.E. is despicable and scary as hell.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
there are some dumb ass people in this thread. if the parents are stupid enough to get high around their kid and let their kid have access to their drugs it's probably a good thing they got the kids removed from them. only ATOT would blame someone else but the parents for this. well junkies too, i suppose.
 
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qliveur

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2007
4,086
70
91
I certainly don't think that they should've been using in front of him. Maybe they weren't and he found out by accident.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
there are some dumb ass people in this thread. if the parents are stupid enough to get high around their kid and let their kid have access to their drugs it's probably a good thing they got the kids removed from them. only ATOT would blame someone else but the parents for this. well junkies too, i suppose.
I know exactly where my parents keep their alcohol. OMG THEY ARE IRRESPONSIBLE THEY SHOULD LOCK IT UP AND PUT A GUARD DOG ON IT.

I also know exactly where the gun was kept.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
I know exactly where my parents keep their alcohol. OMG THEY ARE IRRESPONSIBLE THEY SHOULD LOCK IT UP AND PUT A GUARD DOG ON IT.

I also know exactly where the gun was kept.

alcohol is not pot. pot is illegal. i don't know how else to explain that. if you are going to do something illegal don't do it in front of your kids. i mean, this is common sense.

my dad has a bar in his house, always has. if i got caught taking any he would have beat my ass. he also has guns. he didn't leave them loaded and laying around where i could get to them. however, it's not illegal to drink alcohol and own a gun.

edit: removed insult(s).
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
Is the cave is the only place that lets me jack off to my hearts content? I got ironhand, no cramps here.
You can do whatever you want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, including your family. Kill yourself for all we care. Just dig the grave and do the deed inside. Make it easier for everyone else.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
alcohol is not pot. pot is illegal. i don't know how else to explain that. if you are going to do something illegal don't do it in front of your kids. i mean, this is common sense.
Do you drive below the speed limit on all roads all the time? People who drive above the posted speed limit show a blatant disrespect toward authority and a disregard for the safety of their child. How many stats do we need before people get the idea of energy increasing exponentially with speed? We should start a government program called NKVD - No Kids in Vehicular Deaths. We would teach kids about the dangers of speeding, have kids report their parents for speeding, and promptly have the children removed from the dangerous situation. Parents who are willing to risk the lives of their children to get somewhere 5 seconds sooner are the kind of people who have no business raising children.


There's also an epidemic problem of people not respecting copyright laws. We need to start a program called National Association of Music Buying Liberals and Artists or just NAMBLA for short. It would teach kids about the dangers of copyright infringement, how intellectual theft is still theft, and how a respect for copyright law helps a society. The program would teach children how to identify IP theft and it would encourage children to report when their parents record TV on VHS, DVR or TiVo without expressed written consent from the copyright holder. The children could then be safely removed from an environment which encourages piracy and a blatant disrespect toward the people who work hard to make television possible.

Lately I've noticed a lot of people not caring too much about strictly complying with the electrical code. Where I live, the electrical code explicitly states that all electrical modifications to the house must be done after getting approval from city hall to change the wiring of the house, the change must be signed by a master electrician before you can submit it for approval from the city, and the work must be done by a certified professional electrician. If you want to move an electrical outlet in your house, you're supposed to get written permission from the city. People who ignore this law and try to do the electrical work themselves are putting the entire family in danger because they are not certified electricians and they don't know what they are doing. What we should do is form a new group called DARE - Don't Attempt to Rewire Electrical shit. This group would educate kids about the dangers of having uncertified people doing electrical work such as moving receptacles, changing the breaker configuration, or running a wire from their house to the garage they just built. Kids would be instructed to report any unlawful electrical work to the school. After a prompt investigation, the children can safely be removed from the home and put into foster care where they are sure to get better treatment from parents who at least have the brains to hire a professional for $500-$1000 to run a single cable to a tool shed for lighting.


(in case you can't tell. I'm being sarcastic)
 
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Cookie

Golden Member
Jul 3, 2001
1,759
2
81
I think this whole thing could have been prevented with a little communication from the parents with the kid. Explain to him about their choices and their reasons and the consequences of others finding out.

My parents and their friends including 3 of my high school teachers all smoked pot around me (and their friend's children) since I was an infant. I don't remember having the conversation about it, but I remember knowing damn well what the consequences would be if the police were involved.

There are a thousand other factors that are unknown to us about this family to say whether they are fit parents or not. My parents were both damn good parents, though they did some things I'm sure many of you would disagree with. They were honest with me about their choices concerning drugs and I appreciated that. A few of their friends tried to keep it a secret from their kids, but the kids all knew anyway.

Personally, I had far more problems with my father's drinking and hated the air when he was smoking tobacco than I did with smoking pot. (Since I left home he's quit both drinking and tobacco, but not pot)

My point is, whether they did drugs in front of their children or not, does little to tell us what kind of parents they were. They made choices some of us would agree with and some would disagree and others would be indifferent. There are many choices parents can make that you may not agree with, but it does not make them a bad parent, and in my opinion certainly does not justify removing the child from his parents, even temporarily (unless obviously the child is immediate danger).
 

bhanson

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2004
1,749
0
71
I think this whole thing could have been prevented with a little communication from the parents with the kid. Explain to him about their choices and their reasons and the consequences of others finding out.

My parents and their friends including 3 of my high school teachers all smoked pot around me (and their friend's children) since I was an infant. I don't remember having the conversation about it, but I remember knowing damn well what the consequences would be if the police were involved.

There are a thousand other factors that are unknown to us about this family to say whether they are fit parents or not. My parents were both damn good parents, though they did some things I'm sure many of you would disagree with. They were honest with me about their choices concerning drugs and I appreciated that. A few of their friends tried to keep it a secret from their kids, but the kids all knew anyway.

Personally, I had far more problems with my father's drinking and hated the air when he was smoking tobacco than I did with smoking pot. (Since I left home he's quit both drinking and tobacco, but not pot)

My point is, whether they did drugs in front of their children or not, does little to tell us what kind of parents they were. They made choices some of us would agree with and some would disagree and others would be indifferent. There are many choices parents can make that you may not agree with, but it does not make them a bad parent, and in my opinion certainly does not justify removing the child from his parents, even temporarily (unless obviously the child is immediate danger).

Your point is valid if you're talking about incidental actions, but when parents use particular kinds of drugs in front of their children it is child maltreatment. Secondhand tobacco smoke has well documented physiological side effects and exposing children to it is blatant maltreatment. You might as well paint their crib with lead paint.

So yes, I do think one can ascertain at least partially what kind of parents people are by only their drug use in front of their kids. Parents who do this put fulfilling their own selfish, insatiable desire in front of their children's health—which is pretty much the definition of a bad parent.
 

chusteczka

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2006
3,399
3
71
Who says parents smoke their mj in front of their kids? They probably smoke it in their bedroom behind a closed and locked door. The kids will notice because the parents will be in-accessible for a time, but hopefully the kids will be old enough to care for themselves during this time.
 

Cookie

Golden Member
Jul 3, 2001
1,759
2
81
Your point is valid if you're talking about incidental actions, but when parents use particular kinds of drugs in front of their children it is child maltreatment.

Parents who do this put fulfilling their own selfish, insatiable desire in front of their children's health—which is pretty much the definition of a bad parent.

I respectfully disagree with both these points. Granted when I was growing up smoking in a sealed car or room with your kids was not yet frowned upon, so my personal experience may not be applicable to your argument.

Do you think it is mistreatment because of the effects of the smoke itself? or the illegal use of drugs? Or when you say 'particular kinds of drugs' are you referring to something different? I would agree, using heroin in front of your kids is not acceptable, though it is not directly impacting their health.

Also, parents are allowed to fulfill some of their own desires without being classified as a 'bad parent'. Where the line is drawn between what is ok and what is not, is different for all parents and all people.

A bad parent, in my mind, is not someone who fulfills their own desires. It is someone who neglects or intentionally harms their children or fails to provide necessities including love.

It seems there are two arguments in this thread bouncing back and forth. One is the use of illegal substance in front of children. The other is the second hand effects of any legal or illegal substance on those children.

I gave my opinion on the first point and you disagreed with me because of the second point (which I was not discussing). As for your point about second hand smoke I hated it growing up, especially in the car. 98% of the smoke in a vehicle was from tobacco. I am glad times are changing and less children have to deal with that, but I still do not think it warrants a child being taken away from his or her parents.
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
oh wow, i can't believe i missed this thread.

what a sad world we live in.

i worry for a lot of you. i really do. there are so many idiots here. holy fuck.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I would agree, using heroin in front of your kids is not acceptable, though it is not directly impacting their health.

Also, parents are allowed to fulfill some of their own desires without being classified as a 'bad parent'. Where the line is drawn between what is ok and what is not, is different for

wow...I guess unless it's physical you don't count it.

Most of this is about their mental/emotional health. Fuck, growing up with cable today means parents don't care a whole bunch what the kids are watching as long as they are not bothering them.

When I was growing up, most parents sent their kids to their room when they wanted to watch a Rated R flick.
 

bhanson

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2004
1,749
0
71
I respectfully disagree with both these points. Granted when I was growing up smoking in a sealed car or room with your kids was not yet frowned upon, so my personal experience may not be applicable to your argument.

Do you think it is mistreatment because of the effects of the smoke itself? or the illegal use of drugs? Or when you say 'particular kinds of drugs' are you referring to something different? I would agree, using heroin in front of your kids is not acceptable, though it is not directly impacting their health.

Also, parents are allowed to fulfill some of their own desires without being classified as a 'bad parent'. Where the line is drawn between what is ok and what is not, is different for all parents and all people.

A bad parent, in my mind, is not someone who fulfills their own desires. It is someone who neglects or intentionally harms their children or fails to provide necessities including love.

It seems there are two arguments in this thread bouncing back and forth. One is the use of illegal substance in front of children. The other is the second hand effects of any legal or illegal substance on those children.

I gave my opinion on the first point and you disagreed with me because of the second point (which I was not discussing). As for your point about second hand smoke I hated it growing up, especially in the car. 98% of the smoke in a vehicle was from tobacco. I am glad times are changing and less children have to deal with that, but I still do not think it warrants a child being taken away from his or her parents.


I was replying almost exclusively to this:

My point is, whether they did drugs in front of their children or not, does little to tell us what kind of parents they were.

Which is false (in a general sense).

It is mistreatment because of the effects of the (specifically cigarette) smoke. I wasn't actually hitting the legality argument at all since it's not illegal to smoke cigarettes in front of your kids.

A bad parent, in my mind, is not someone who fulfills their own desires. It is someone who neglects or intentionally harms their children or fails to provide necessities including love.

Secondhand smoke is (really) bad for kids. The literal definition of child maltreatment is "Intentional harm to or avoidable endangerment of anyone under 18 years of age." This objectively declares someone that smokes cigarettes in front of their kids as child maltreatment, I'm not just blowing smoke (har har). Maybe you're confusing this with child abuse: "deliberate action that is harmful to a child's physical, emotional, or sexual well-being." Or child neglect: "failure to meet a child's basic physical, educational, or emotional needs".

Whether smoking is child abuse or child neglect is up to interpretation, but it is objectively child maltreatment.

Parents are allowed to fulfill their own desires, but I think my description of the act in front of kids as selfish is accurate. Definition of selfishness: "It is the act of placing one's own needs or desires above the needs or desires of others."

Maybe I should clarify clarify the label as a "bad parent." Your argument is that smoking in front of kids has little relationship with either being a bad parent or a good parent.

My point is, whether they did drugs in front of their children or not, does little to tell us what kind of parents they were.

Parenting actions can probably be classified into three categories: good action, neutral action, and bad action. Smoking is definitely not a good action. Your argument is that it is closer to a neutral action than a bad action. This I disagree with. In the past the effects of the smoke were perhaps not as clear so this lends a reason to why it was socially acceptable. Today the effects are very clear, but unfortunately people are still addicted to these substances and it's not easy for people to just quit.

I agree that smoking in front of your kids is only one variable in determining overall parental quality; that a smoker can be a better parent than a non-smoker that does other things wrong. But I believe the action itself very clearly is lumped into the category with which a bad parent would do. So while calling someone a bad parent based upon this one tidbit of knowledge alone may be a slight exaggeration, because of the seriousness of the irreversible damage it causes I think it is appropriate.

My issue is more with the child not having a choice in the matter. I believe smoking in public should be illegal everywhere. When I'm downtown at practically every corner I see parents with a kid in their left hand and a cigarette in their right. As an adult, I can simply walk away and go somewhere else where people are not smoking, or avoid areas in general where smoking occurs. The child doesn't have this choice.

I don't know if it necessarily warrants taking a child away, but if the alternative is doing nothing then I would be okay with that. The best solution is probably somewhere in the middle.