electron to photon.

[William Gaatjes]

I just had a crazy thought. Maybe it is the case or not.

If an electron in a situation sheds some energy, the result is a photon.

But i was thinking that this may be an intermediate way.
We are surrounded by virtual particles. But these particles have not been granted to exist, the environment was not what it must be to do so. When an electron sheds some of it's energy, it in effect creates an environment for a virtual photon to exist and to become a photon that can exist in our universe. When the photon is "absorbed", it is not the photon itself. It is the energy that allows the photon to exist and the photon becomes virtual once again and after that ceases to exist.

I had to think of this while thinking of the remark someone posted that a magnetic field line in effect is a string of special photons and while looking at some documentaries about physicists. I do not know who that was anymore though.

Here are the documentaries :


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1406370011028154810&hl=en&emb=1#

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3325831859220140461#

 

[KIAman]

I would go with the KISS principle, but that's just me.

 

[mutz]

are you saying dead people are virtually alive?

 

[logo908]

Quantum Electrodynamics. Photons are gauge bosons of the electromagnetic force. Electromagnetic energy comes in multiples of the energy of incident photons E=hv. So yah I guess you can say they are manifestations of the some energy, and can be either 'pure' energy in the photon or absorbed into an electron. The whole thing about virtual particles may be stretching into philosophy though?

 

[silverpig]

There's a bunch of things wrong with what you said, but I'm too lazy to correct them.

 

[DrPizza]

What do you mean by "sheds some energy"? Sure, an electron can shed some energy by emitting a photon. But it remains an electron in the process. An electron itself cannot turn into a photon. Re: conservation of charge.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I would go with the KISS principle, but that's just me.

That is indeed you.
But to defend you from your own reply. History shows that sometimes it is indeed better to understand and when that is done, to forget...

 

[William Gaatjes]

Quantum Electrodynamics. Photons are gauge bosons of the electromagnetic force. Electromagnetic energy comes in multiples of the energy of incident photons E=hv. So yah I guess you can say they are manifestations of the some energy, and can be either 'pure' energy in the photon or absorbed into an electron. The whole thing about virtual particles may be stretching into philosophy though?

Actually it is with respect to my post. But philosophy is a great way for the "poor man" interested...

 

[William Gaatjes]

What do you mean by "sheds some energy"? Sure, an electron can shed some energy by emitting a photon. But it remains an electron in the process. An electron itself cannot turn into a photon. Re: conservation of charge.

You are right and that is what i meant as well. An electron stays an electron. In the classical way it would mean jumping orbits.

Fun to watch :

About cold.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...&hl=en&view=3&emb=1#docid=5261389955425152071

About the cold war and gamma rays emitting from the universe.
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5642534/14799394

More about cold.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...Aa04unpAg&q=absolute+zero&hl=en&view=3&emb=1#

 

[mutz]

are you saying dead people are virtually alive?

or rather, everything which gets a physical form has an earlier virtual form,
and vice versa..

huh?
nothing about this one?
even if it doesn't sound so wise, you could share your thoughts about it,
it wouldn't make you seem silly,
it is quite interesting actually.

why do people ignore others?
is this a way to behave?
is this a way of showing you are wiser :hmm:?
maybe i'm wrong,
it looks like general arrogance.

 

[William Gaatjes]

or rather, everything which gets a physical form has an earlier virtual form,
and vice versa..

huh?
nothing about this one?
even if it doesn't sound so wise, you could share your thoughts about it,
it wouldn't make you seem silly,
it is quite interesting actually.

why do people ignore others?
is this a way to behave?
is this a way of showing you are wiser :hmm:?
maybe i'm wrong,
it looks like general arrogance.

If you where addressing me, i had no intention of ignoring you. If it seemed like that, i apologize. But i want to formulate my answer as best as i can and sometimes my mind is caught up in my work and/or my hobbies.


My opinion :

In essence, we never die or come to life. We propagate. Sometimes a complex formation of atoms becomes sentient. But afterwards, the complex formation falls apart. Does the sentient part die ? From a certain point of view never. It lives on to become part of other complex formations of matter.

Does the sentient part live on as it is after the complex formation of matter falls apart. The atoms formerly used by the complex form of matter, only to be used again by other life ? I would lie if i would say i would not care. The question you ask is what is a sentient being without it's complex formation. I call it simply the mind. Others call it the soul. It is in effect a complex set of burst oscillations caused by groups of neurons. If you would have a medium that can take over the entire function from those neurons ( especially the adaptive functions). Your mind can live on as you are. It is possible to describe the mind as a recursive mathematical function. After doing that, you need a medium powerful and flexible enough though.

As long as the universe exists and it has enough energy, life will exist.
And anything in it will exist. If you want to live without a universe in virtual space, create and be your own universe... You can live infinite as long as you have a medium that can sustain you.

 

[mutz]

As long as the universe exists and it has enough energy, life will exist.
And anything in it will exist. If you want to live without a universe in virtual space, create and be your own universe... You can live infinite as long as you have a medium that can sustain you.

i really don't see how life and the universe are two separate things,

the man is the evident of life,
if there wasn't a man, there wasn't any evidence of life right?

and this is dumb - no offense-,
you cannot separate yourself from the universe,
you are a part of the universe,
the universe would exist without you, but you wouldn't exist without the universe..

this seems like an image taken from a sci fi movie...

 

[William Gaatjes]

i really don't see how life and the universe are two separate things,

the man is the evident of life,
if there wasn't a man, there wasn't any evidence of life right?

Do not think of man.

Bacterial life and phages is what makes everything happen. without those, no life as we know it when looking around on the planet. That a man or a woman or a human or any mammal is needed is highly overrated. That you cannot see that you are saturated with various forms of life does not mean they do not exist or keep you alive. Symbiosis, it is the magic word...

and this is dumb - no offense-,
you cannot separate yourself from the universe,
you are a part of the universe,
the universe would exist without you, but you wouldn't exist without the universe..

this seems like an image taken from a sci fi movie...

I think it all depends on quantification. Life itself you could describe it. But it's action you would not need to describe. That is the fun part. Let it go do its seemingly random behaviour. I say seemingly because afcourse its behaviour depends of all the variables around that life form. But the fun is when you have enough variables, it seems random enough. And that will do the trick.

As long as you can accurately describe a process or a bundle of processes and you have a medium. You can live on. Just not as a person of flesh and blood. And afcourse, if you use your creativity, you can empower yourself with all kind of fun features. But you have to be careful though. You definitely do not want "cargo cults".
()

Afcourse i am purely hypothetically speaking.

Which movie was it by the way ?

 

[mutz]

Bacterial life and phages is what makes everything happen. without those, no life as we know it when looking around on the planet. That a man or a woman or a human or any mammal is needed is highly overrated. That you cannot see that you are saturated with various forms of life does not mean they do not exist or keep you alive. Symbiosis, it is the magic word...

so what we are saying basically, is that the universe needs this micro organisms to prosper, right?

if life on this planet has started from some sort of Tardigrade , or any other microscopic life form which took a trip on an asteroid,
so this is the way the universe fertilizes itself,
i'll even take it a step forward and say, that different environmental characteristics, creates different forms of life,
on a different planet, any life form would likely to develop entirely or at least partially different.

these are seeds of creation, and they are moving around the universe like fish eggs in the sea, or flower seeds in the wind...

As long as you can accurately describe a process or a bundle of processes and you have a medium. You can live on. Just not as a person of flesh and blood. And afcourse, if you use your creativity, you can empower yourself with all kind of fun features. But you have to be careful though. You definitely do not want "cargo cults".

i think man should accept death.
the whole idea, of transferring the mind into a computerized system or what ever,
making man live forever,
again truly reminds sci fi idea's, yet these idea's take the true essence of life out, and puts them inside a metallic platform,
as man strengthen the mind, he's feelings go blunt.

i was more after, what is happening after death, and where this energy held within the human body or the mind is going to, cause this energy, this spirit, is there, through all of his life, he's memories, his experiences, everything is there.
i'm curious about that.

 

[William Gaatjes]

so what we are saying basically, is that the universe needs this micro organisms to prosper, right?

if life on this planet has started from some sort of Tardigrade , or any other microscopic life form which took a trip on an asteroid,
so this is the way the universe fertilizes itself,
i'll even take it a step forward and say, that different environmental characteristics, creates different forms of life,
on a different planet, any life form would likely to develop entirely or at least partially different.

these are seeds of creation, and they are moving around the universe like fish eggs in the sea, or flower seeds in the wind...

From a certain point of view, you might want to research why carbon has such favourable characteristics.

Tardigrades are way to locked as a starter.
Start simpler. Hypothetically speaking :
If i where an alien, and i want to live on a planet. I would never come directly as myself. The idea is old but has recently been used in the movie "war of the world". Use space dust, asteroids, comets. Or a vessel(carbon based) that would dissolve as soon as it landed or be used as energy. In that vessel there would be microbes. Bacteria and phages designed that slowly mutate the bacterial population in a way that the more complex forms of life mutate as well in a way that i as alien prefer. That all done, when i myself land on the planet, i can land there after mutating myself enough to be a hybrid of my original self and the lifeform that exist. Landing on a planet directly would be suicide for obvious reasons.
Life is very hard to exterminate because if there is a chance it will exist.

Now if i can do all this, i would not have hostile intentions. I would be perfectly able to do what i set my mind too. But the general mantra would be to have a closed energy circle. When you are in deep space, there are not always planets around or suns or just plasma for the taking.
This is just an idea. I am not alien. Just to make it clear.

i think man should accept death.
the whole idea, of transferring the mind into a computerized system or what ever,
making man live forever,
again truly reminds sci fi idea's, yet these idea's take the true essence of life out, and puts them inside a metallic platform,
as man strengthen the mind, he's feelings go blunt.

Hypothetically speaking :
Everybody has his /hers time for a while. However, if life is to short and you wish to be an explorer that needs to live for billions of years... And even then death will always be existing. No energy, no life. If you are from flesh or blood or a more advanced form of life, you always need energy. If you are an explorer that want to experience the birth of a universe, then you have no choice to go on. It is just another form of evolution. But a steered from of evolution. Keep evolving with more advanced techniques

i was more after, what is happening after death, and where this energy held within the human body or the mind is going to, cause this energy, this spirit, is there, through all of his life, he's memories, his experiences, everything is there.
i'm curious about that.

As i have written in my previous post, the essence of a person his mind, his soul, his spirit, it is always possible to describe it, but what you ask is there someone or something describing the spirit after death ? I cannot answer that. I can give you the answer i gave to someone who was religious. At the moment, i cannot confirm or deny the existence of a higher being. Perhaps the universe was created by an intelligence or higher being. Perhaps it was not. Using honest logic, i cannot rule it out but i find the weight factor of the variable to be very very very small to be of any use in every day life equations on the planet earth.

The holy books on earth have nothing to do with it. These books are copies of copies of copies of written down stories when survivors from the last civilization tried to spread their knowledge to the ancestors of the current civilization. This started to happen around 8000 to 8500 years ago.

 

[mutz]

No energy, no life.

maybe, part of the energy,
a different aspect of life...,
a part of the wholeness of it...

I cannot answer that.

well, of course you cannot, yet,

At the moment, i cannot confirm or deny the existence of a higher being.

this is going somewhere..

Using honest logic, i cannot rule it out but i find the weight factor of the variable to be very very very small to be of any use in every day life equations on the planet earth.

what are you basing this thought on..?

The holy books on earth have nothing to do with it.

these books are history books, aren't they..?
they tell the story of a period in time, they tell the story of evolution of man and believe, since it's supposed origin, or the end of the stone age or around it, and till around few hundreds of years ago.

they are a page in history,

they tell the story of man when it is starting to seek something, which is beyond him,
something, which is untouched by time, indestructible,
maybe something that would give him a reason to live..?
something which he calls, god.

but this is going a bit off topic from this forum here .

 

[William Gaatjes]

maybe, part of the energy,
a different aspect of life...,
a part of the wholeness of it...


well, of course you cannot, yet,


this is going somewhere..

what are you basing this thought on..?

I like to read about history and follow archaeologists through reading of articles, documenatries and going to museums(although it has been a while).

these books are history books, aren't they..?
they tell the story of a period in time, they tell the story of evolution of man and believe, since it's supposed origin, or the end of the stone age or around it, and till around few hundreds of years ago.

they are a page in history,

they tell the story of man when it is starting to seek something, which is beyond him,
something, which is untouched by time, indestructible,
maybe something that would give him a reason to live..?
something which he calls, god.

but this is going a bit off topic from this forum here .

True.

But there is a difference between a history book and the adaptation of history stories to glorify yourself and assuring yourself of a base of power.

 

[mutz]

maybe something that would give him a meaning to live.

that's better said.

But there is a difference between a history book and the adaptation of history stories to glorify yourself and assuring yourself of a base of power.

can't understand what you are talking about,

if this is some sort of hinting,
please feel free to speak it out - open.

 

[mutz]

delete

 

[William Gaatjes]

that's better said.



can't understand what you are talking about,

if this is some sort of hinting,
please feel free to speak it out - open.

In my opinion :

The holy texts where no more then family texts and traditions at first. Kind of similar as grandma's recipes book. When you have children, you have to bring them up, meaning you have to educate them. Now families grew bigger and became tribes, tribes became civilization because of agriculture and because of trading food and other merchandise. The mutual dependencies had the benefit of making sure that tribes did not go to war with each other although not excluding the option ( if you conquer someone, you can aquire their knowledge if you do not kill them.)

Intermezzo
This is also the base of modern civilization. Share the wealth and create mutual dependencies that outweigh the benefits of hostile attacks on each other. Afcourse you do need sane and educated people for this to work.
/Intermezzo

There is a theory( not by me ^_^) based on some history about old jewish tribes, who would commit suicide en masse when confronted with hostile attacks. This could in my opinion mean that if tribes used this suicide method more often, you would not be able to gain the specific knowledge these tribes have because they would destroy all hints and would commit suicide en masse, men women and children. Afcourse the commitment of committing suicide en masse has to be powerful and that is where religion steps in.

A part of religion is control.
Some people realized this and took it to an extreme. With the old testament, you have to read the texts with the mindset of 8000 to 2000 years ago.

Intermezzo
It is highly likely that some names where a title and not the name of an individual person, but a title used by many generations, a title passed on to an selected individual) Now if someone would read the title as the name of an individual, he would be reading that that person was very old, more then 200 years.
/Intermezzo

With the new testament, i wonder what research would reveal by counting how many roman writers and poets where responsible for the new testament.
This when the roman catholic church started to arise as a new base of power. Afcourse this explains much, because it is easier to control a crowd if you can make them believe a superior entity will hurt, kill them then when you yourself step up alone with a sword. Never read about someone is seen as a god, with the strength of 10 tigers and the speed of a snake attacking ?
It is a bit of thickening the reality with the impression someone has from another person. But that person gets older and injured too and sooner or later replaced by a new "god".

EDIT:

It is similar with the islam. Muhammad realized through his only true wife Khadijah_bint_Khuwaylid what education can do and by his own experiences what a view on life can do. Khadijah was expected of the same age or a few years older. Now the followers where their children and other people. After the death of Muhammad the children and the other people continued the view of life but in their interpretation. And some people liked the power they had over people, corrupting them in the process , as can be seen in any religion.


Intermezzo
I am an atheist, so you know. In my opinion : Back in those days, it was very normal by tradition to marry young girls even before becoming adolescent. Now on some occasions it can very well have been that some young girls where chosen as wifes, it did not mean there was sexual intercourse right away. Very likely that the more intelligent men claimed to have sex to confirm the healthy marriage but in reality did not have sexual intercourse because they where waiting for the girl to mature enough to be able to have children and wanting sexual intercourse herself . And because you marry your wife as a child she grows in your point of view on life as well as you are her tutor.
/Intermezzo

 

[William Gaatjes]

There is a joke about family traditions but it is similar like reading ancient texts :

For generations, the men and women in a certain family used for cow meat a big frying pan and for lamb meat a small frying pan when making a certain cooking recipe.
Now one of the daughters lets call here Lisa asks a question. Why do i need a big frying pan for cow meat and for lamb meat a small frying pan ? And her mother replies that she does not know, she has just learned it that way and passed on the family cooking recipe to her daughter Lisa. But the mother explains to the daughter that the mother will ask it on her mother, the grandmother of the daughter Lisa. The grandmother has the same answer, i just follow like your father what is written down in the family cooking recipe. But the daughter Lisa still wants to know why the big frying pan and why the small frying pan. And thus Lisa goes to her great grandmother and ask the question again. Her great grand mother replied that she used a big frying pan for the cow meat for no particular reason and that she used the small frying pan for the lamb meat because that was al she had. One big frying pan and and one small frying pan. She wrote it down literally in the family cookbook because she was used to do that. And all the men and women born after took her recipe literally without thinking why...

 

[bobsmith1492]

What happened to this thread? It went from a fairly straightforward process (electrons shedding a photon) to cooking cows?

Electrons -> photons -> energy in general -> life as energy -> definition of life -> holy texts -> examples of the telephone game via cookbook

Energy is not some mystical thing a la Lost or Star Trek... nor is one's life or soul related to electromagnetic energy (or kinetic or thermal or other known forms of energy).

 

[mutz]

It is highly likely that some names where a title and not the name of an individual person, but a title used by many generations, a title passed on to an selected individual) Now if someone would read the title as the name of an individual, he would be reading that that person was very old, more then 200 years.

doubtfully,
could be a difference in the measuring system,
also, people at remote places seems to have lived up to 150 years,
the current environment is much different then the one that has been thousands of years ago,
peace and quite were much more common,
people were less worried, stressful, ate healthy and with proportion, were fit.
there was a document movie at one of the channels saying that the 7 days of creation actually were spread upon millions of years and they included the period of dinosaurs within it.
there could be a mix of exaggerations too (option) within the numbers, as in order to uplift the person involved and make him more sacred.

The holy texts where no more then family texts and traditions at first. Kind of similar as grandma's recipes book. When you have children, you have to bring them up, meaning you have to educate them. Now families grew bigger and became tribes, tribes became civilization because of agriculture and because of trading food and other merchandise. The mutual dependencies had the benefit of making sure that tribes did not go to war with each other although not excluding the option[

you seem very materialistic and skeptical about the existence of a different level of consciousness/god or whatever you name it..

 

[William Gaatjes]

doubtfully,
could be a difference in the measuring system,
also, people at remote places seems to have lived up to 150 years,
the current environment is much different then the one that has been thousands of years ago,
peace and quite were much more common,
people were less worried, stressful, ate healthy and with proportion, were fit.
there was a document movie at one of the channels saying that the 7 days of creation actually were spread upon millions of years and they included the period of dinosaurs within it.
there could be a mix of exaggerations too (option) within the numbers, as in order to uplift the person involved and make him more sacred.

Perhaps...

you seem very materialistic and skeptical about the existence of a different level of consciousness/god or whatever you name it..

I may seem like that, and i am in the case of the current for centuries practiced religions. But in a sense i am not. My view is just naturally a bit broader, giving more peace of mind. people are so very young still...

 

[mutz]

o.k, mr. king of the universe.. :\