Electrical Problem - Circuit Breaker vs. Dryer

[Izzo]

I have a 3 yr old Maytag electrical dryer and installed it in our new (to us) house. It worked fine for the last two months. Yesterday, the dryer would not start and there was no electricity to the dryer (inside light wouldn't even turn on). So I checked the circuit breaker and, technically, it was not tripped. It was in the correct ON position. However, switching the circuit breaker off and then back on caused the dryer to regain power. I ran the dryer again for about 20 minutes before it quit -- no power to the dryer at all. So I reinvestigated the circuit breaker and again, it was not tripped. However, flipping it off and on resets everything and the dryer is working again.

So.... is it the dryer or circuit breaker? Why isn't the breaker tripping the whole way? It is a 30 Amp breaker, as specified in the Maytag manual.

FWIW, both dryer and circuit breaker were working fine before and there was no known stressor on the system that would lead me to believe either had failed.

 

[spidey07]

Replace the breaker would be my first guess.

-edit-
When a breaker trips it won't move to the off position and there will be some play in the switch. wiggle it a little, should be NO play.

 

[BigJ]

Replace the breaker.

While rare, it can happen with breakers "tripping" without throwing themselves.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Replace the breaker would be my first guess.

-edit-
When a breaker trips it won't move to the off position and there will be some play in the switch. wiggle it a little, should be NO play.

If you are wiggling it, you are playing

 

[Izzo]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Replace the breaker would be my first guess.

-edit-
When a breaker trips it won't move to the off position and there will be some play in the switch. wiggle it a little, should be NO play.

The breaker can move and stay into both the on and off positions still. In each position there is no wiggle room at all and I have to put a fair bit of force behind the switch to swicht it to and from each position.

 

[Izzo]

Originally posted by: BigJ
Replace the breaker.

While rare, it can happen with breakers "tripping" without throwing themselves.

Yeah, that's what I am leaning towards as it is the cheapest fix. But if it is tripping without throwing, does that lead us to believe that it is more the problem of the breaker than dryer? If it truly is tripping at 30 A, then the problem could be the dryer. But still, switching the breaker is probably the first step.

 

[spidey07]

Replacing the breaker is easy to see what the problem is.

My only other guess is something with your heating element as you say it runs for 20 minutes and THEN trips. After heating up there could be a short somewhere in the element?

 

[ktehmok]

It's the breaker. A 2 pole 30 amp is usually $5-10 at the hardware store.

Is it very warm or hot to the touch right after it trips? My guess is it is after 20 minutes. And it is normal for the breaker to trip into the halfway position (It looks like it is on).

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ktehmok
It's the breaker. A 2 pole 30 amp is usually $5-10 at the hardware store.

Is it very warm or hot to the touch right after it trips? My guess is it is after 20 minutes. And it is normal for the breaker to trip into the halfway position (It looks like it is on).

Will circuit breakers open due to heat? or is that HOW/WHY they open?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Izzo

Originally posted by: BigJ
Replace the breaker.

While rare, it can happen with breakers "tripping" without throwing themselves.

Yeah, that's what I am leaning towards as it is the cheapest fix. But if it is tripping without throwing, does that lead us to believe that it is more the problem of the breaker than dryer? If it truly is tripping at 30 A, then the problem could be the dryer. But still, switching the breaker is probably the first step.

The internals on the breaker are more than likely going.

Start easy with the breaker. If that doesn't work, then move on to other basic trouble shooting such as making sure all connections are properly secured and measuring the load of the line.

You technically should be inspecting the line first (more often than not, there's a problem with the circuit itself, not the breaker), but that would require you to have all the necessary tools and I'm not sure if you do.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ktehmok
It's the breaker. A 2 pole 30 amp is usually $5-10 at the hardware store.

Is it very warm or hot to the touch right after it trips? My guess is it is after 20 minutes. And it is normal for the breaker to trip into the halfway position (It looks like it is on).

Will circuit breakers open due to heat? or is that HOW/WHY they open?

Depends.

The reason they trip starts with excess current, which can in turn generate excess heat or a magnetic charge large enough to throw the breaker. Either the heat or the charge will result in a tripped breaker.

 

[flamingelephant]

the breaker could be shot. Replace it, they are not expensive and try again.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: flamingelephant
the breaker could be shot. Replace it, they are not expensive and try again.

So 10/11 comments to replace the breaker.

1 to break the wiggler.

That seems like consensus to me.

 

[jagec]

Sounds like the breaker tripped just fine...they usually look like they're in the "on" position after tripping, but no current is flowing. There's a little window on most breakers that displays red when the breaker has tripped. Does yours have one? Does it show red after the dryer quits?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: flamingelephant
the breaker could be shot. Replace it, they are not expensive and try again.

So 10/11 comments to replace the breaker.

1 to break the wiggler.

That seems like consensus to me.

9.5/11. I only suggested it because most people don't know how or don't have the equipment to properly test a line.

The quick possible fix is replacing the breaker. The correct thing to do is a full inspection of the line before touching the breaker.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: flamingelephant
the breaker could be shot. Replace it, they are not expensive and try again.

So 10/11 comments to replace the breaker.

1 to break the wiggler.

That seems like consensus to me.

9.5/11. I only suggested it because most people don't know how or don't have the equipment to properly test a line.

The quick possible fix is replacing the breaker. The correct thing to do is a full inspection of the line before touching the breaker.

Correct/smorrect. What's a little fire between friends?

Seriously though, how does the time element come into play with the breaker and the appliance? That seems like a heat thing to me - either on the appliance or the breaker. Then again I ain't no electrician. The breaker should open well before the wire exceeds it's rating. If properly installed of course.

 

[flamingelephant]

and if its behind a wall? change the breaker... if it still trips, either the dryer is broken somehow, or there is a short in the line between the breaker and the dryer. In that case, if the line is not visible, you'll be ripping out walls or running new wire.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: flamingelephant
the breaker could be shot. Replace it, they are not expensive and try again.

So 10/11 comments to replace the breaker.

1 to break the wiggler.

That seems like consensus to me.

9.5/11. I only suggested it because most people don't know how or don't have the equipment to properly test a line.

The quick possible fix is replacing the breaker. The correct thing to do is a full inspection of the line before touching the breaker.

Correct/smorrect. What's a little fire between friends?

Seriously though, how does the time element come into play with the breaker and the appliance? That seems like a heat thing to me - either on the appliance or the breaker. Then again I ain't no electrician. The breaker should open well before the wire exceeds it's rating. If properly installed of course.

Properly installed and functioning properly, along with being paired with the proper wire.

The time thing comes into play most commonly when you have what's called a continuous load. A continuous load is defined roughly as anything that's going to be run constantly for 3 hours. This directly translates to heat buildup on the circuit. So you were absolutely correct in that there is heat buildup over time.

This doesn't mean your circuit isn't going to heat up if it's used continuously for under 3 hours, it just means that when you do load calculations, you don't have to multiply by 1.25.

The thing is, you should not be reaching this heat threshold after 20 minutes unless something is wrong with the circuit and its overloading the line.

If you're curious as to how heat works on circuit breakers, google bimetal and circuit breakers.

 

[Rubycon]

What brand CB is it?

If it's Square D you're in good shape. If it's Federal Pacific you may want to run away!

Replace the breaker and make sure the wires are bonded securely. Loose connections will generate heat which can be conducted back into the CB mechanism causing false thermal trips. The spring could have weakened so it doesn't have the necessary kinetic energy to throw the handle into the tripped position. In the USA that should be a double pole 30A 60 cycle CB with a 10kA interrupt rating. Residential driers usually run about 5.5kW plus a 1/3 hp shaded pole motor for the drum. You can amprobe the line too at the CB to measure draw.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
What brand CB is it?

If it's Square D you're in good shape. If it's Federal Pacific you may want to run away!

Replace the breaker and make sure the wires are bonded securely. Loose connections will generate heat which can be conducted back into the CB mechanism causing false thermal trips. The spring could have weakened so it doesn't have the necessary kinetic energy to throw the handle into the tripped position. In the USA that should be a double pole 30A 60 cycle CB with a 10kA interrupt rating. Residential driers usually run about 5.5kW plus a 1/3 hp shaded pole motor for the drum. You can amprobe the line too at the CB to measure draw.

Sickening that I understood.

Stop trying to be fancy, we all know what a 30 amp circuit breaker is.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Rubycon
What brand CB is it?

If it's Square D you're in good shape. If it's Federal Pacific you may want to run away!

Replace the breaker and make sure the wires are bonded securely. Loose connections will generate heat which can be conducted back into the CB mechanism causing false thermal trips. The spring could have weakened so it doesn't have the necessary kinetic energy to throw the handle into the tripped position. In the USA that should be a double pole 30A 60 cycle CB with a 10kA interrupt rating. Residential driers usually run about 5.5kW plus a 1/3 hp shaded pole motor for the drum. You can amprobe the line too at the CB to measure draw.

Sickening that I understood.

Stop trying to be fancy, we all know what a 30 amp circuit breaker is.

Simplified:

Replace breaker with 30A Double Pole of your manufacturer. Make sure all wires are secured. Breaker is broken. Take a load reading to see if you're drawing too much power.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Replace the breaker, older breakers get weak and will trip easier.

 

[Izzo]

So what are you guys saying? You think I should change the breaker?

(btw, thanks for all of the help:thumbsup

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Rubycon
What brand CB is it?

If it's Square D you're in good shape. If it's Federal Pacific you may want to run away!

Replace the breaker and make sure the wires are bonded securely. Loose connections will generate heat which can be conducted back into the CB mechanism causing false thermal trips. The spring could have weakened so it doesn't have the necessary kinetic energy to throw the handle into the tripped position. In the USA that should be a double pole 30A 60 cycle CB with a 10kA interrupt rating. Residential driers usually run about 5.5kW plus a 1/3 hp shaded pole motor for the drum. You can amprobe the line too at the CB to measure draw.

Sickening that I understood.

Stop trying to be fancy, we all know what a 30 amp circuit breaker is.

but do we all know what a shaded pole motor is? Tricky thing getting an AC motor running on single phase power, gotta trick it to get it started .