Electric Fencing Machine

[Kreon]

For an electronics project I'm going to be building an electric Fencing Machine
(and using a source from the net is allowed)

Any ideas on how
It has to work for foil, adn distinguish between on target and off ttarget touches

It also has to be cheap, nad I'm only building the "guts" of it (ie, not cords or body wires)

Could there be an easy way to make it wireless, maybe with cheap 1 way radios? (somehow..)

Thanks AT

 

[bobsmith1492]

What is an electric fencing machine? Foil... you mean fencing as in the sword-like fencing? My first thought was an electric fence...

What does it have to do? Is it something you wear or is it like a robot dummy you practice with?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

It's something where, when the tip of the foil touches a part of the body, and electric signal goes off and alerts that the user was hit, giving the attacker a point.

 

[Matthias99]

From the description, yes, I would assume he wants to build a USFA scoring machine that would indicate when a touch has been scored in an 'electric' fencing bout.

A scoring machine is a relatively simple set of circuits -- although it gets a little more complex if you need to follow USFA timing rules exactly.

In wired foils and epees, the tip of the weapon contains a contact switch that connects to wires (so pushing the contact switch against something closes the circuit those wires form). In epee, a touch is scored if the circuit is closed and is not grounded (because if it is grounded then you are pressing the weapon against the grounded floor strip), and in foil, a touch is scored if the circuit is closed and the circuit is grounded (since that means you are pressing the point of the weapon against your opponent's lame).

There is also a timing restriction, such that some number of milliseconds after one side scores a touch, the other side is 'locked out' and not allowed to score until the machine resets (either manually or after a few seconds). In foil bouts, if you close the circuit but are not grounded, this is an 'off target' attack and also locks out the opponent (though I think there is a longer delay in that case).

Sabre is much simpler; when your blade touches the opponent's lame, a touch is scored. The same sort of timing lockout applies, although again the value may be different.

Making it wireless is actually a lot harder than it first seems. Especially for foil, since you have to deal with off-target touches.

 

[Kreon]

mmm
yes, sword fencing, sorry bout that

It doesn't have to be completely USFA (as we don't follow their rules in my club)
And only has to do foil (only the msot complicated one....)

I had thought that it's circuts. (kidna abvious) but how many?
4, right, one for each persons off target and score

I don't really need timers, but if it's not to much more complicated (and not too much more costly)
I'd liek them
relays to keep the lights lit after a touch

Would anybody know where I can get a schematic for a machine?
Would the one the club currently has have the schematic printed on teh inside?

Sorry I couldn't have cleared this up earlier, but I was sleeping then shoveling today

 

[Kreon]

alos, an idea where I could buy the parts for it, cheap?
Think Jame-co will ahve what I want?

What about the reel plugs? (the three pronged plugs)
Where could I buy the ones to connect to the machine?

Sorry I can't type

 

[Matthias99]

You can get the plugs, etc. from a variety of sources (or just take old body cords, cut off the ends, and splice into the cables). Anywhere that sells boxes and reels will usually also sell parts. I usually buy from Triplette or Blue Gauntlet, but there are many suppliers. Wherever your club buys gear will probably suffice.

If you don't care about lockout, the circuits are very simple. A rough lockout timer (and the one to keep the lights on) could be done with some resistors and capacitors connected to transistors. Getting the lockout timing exactly right may be tricky unless you use digital timer chips or use very precise electrical components and do a lot of math.

Google searching didn't turn up anything real obvious in terms of schematics. Your box (or its instruction manual) might have some schematics... if you can't find anything, I can at least throw some more detailed guidelines together.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
What is an electric fencing machine? Foil... you mean fencing as in the sword-like fencing? My first thought was an electric fence...

What does it have to do? Is it something you wear or is it like a robot dummy you practice with?

Hehe... I thought the same thing at first.

I went to the Pan Am games in Indianapolis when they first tried to use such a system. It was a disaster. After the first touch in the first match, there was like a 4 hour delay until they could round up some judges and just do it manually. We decided that was too long, so we went to watch USA vs Cuba baseball and Argentina vs Italy soccer.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492
What is an electric fencing machine? Foil... you mean fencing as in the sword-like fencing? My first thought was an electric fence...

What does it have to do? Is it something you wear or is it like a robot dummy you practice with?

Hehe... I thought the same thing at first.

I went to the Pan Am games in Indianapolis when they first tried to use such a system. It was a disaster. After the first touch in the first match, there was like a 4 hour delay until they could round up some judges and just do it manually. We decided that was too long, so we went to watch USA vs Cuba baseball and Argentina vs Italy soccer.

Hey! Are you in the WU Fencing Club? I was lead saber my senior year in 83. That was when Dr. Dan was the coach (he died of cancer in late 80's). He went to the Olympics as foil, and then 4 years later as saber.

Oh, and no matter what, you still need the human judges. The officiant needs to determine if right of way was established. The other judges not only watch for touches but also monitor for safety. I know I have halted an attack as a judge for a broken weapon, which can be fatal.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: gsellis
Hey! Are you in the WU Fencing Club? I was lead saber my senior year in 83. That was when Dr. Dan was the coach (he died of cancer in late 80's). He went to the Olympics as foil, and then 4 years later as saber.

Oh, and no matter what, you still need the human judges. The officiant needs to determine if right of way was established. The other judges not only watch for touches but also monitor for safety. I know I have halted an attack as a judge for a broken weapon, which can be fatal.

Nope. My only experience with fencing was the Pan Am games, which was more than a little disappointing. I am the player-coach for WU's club soccer team though. Maybe that day changed my life forever...

 

[JonB]

I'd be more inclined to use a Capacitive sensor on the tip, like the method they use for touch sensitive light switches and lamps (for your living room) that turn on/off/dim when you touch the metal base. Steal the circuitry from one of those lamps (garage sale time!).

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: gsellis
Hey! Are you in the WU Fencing Club? I was lead saber my senior year in 83. That was when Dr. Dan was the coach (he died of cancer in late 80's). He went to the Olympics as foil, and then 4 years later as saber.

Oh, and no matter what, you still need the human judges. The officiant needs to determine if right of way was established. The other judges not only watch for touches but also monitor for safety. I know I have halted an attack as a judge for a broken weapon, which can be fatal.

Nope. My only experience with fencing was the Pan Am games, which was more than a little disappointing. I am the player-coach for WU's club soccer team though. Maybe that day changed my life forever...

Sorry for the OT OP.

I played in Open and on Sigma Chi's IM team. #1 (What's Fugascity - 80/81) and #2 (Mass Flux - 81/82) in Open. Keeper.

 

[Kreon]

Don't worry bout the OT
Don't matter

Matthias, how expensive would these digital timer chips be?
I also tried googling schematics for it, all I got was machines that plant electric fencing
It uses, essentially, 4 circuits, right?
1 for fencer 1's off target
1 for fencer 2's off target
1 for fencer 1's on target
1 for fencer 2's on target
Right
The off target ones are caused by the button at the end connecting a circuit, right?
If that takes two (or is it somehow crammed into 1) connector for the body cord
Another is taken to complete the circuit for your touches, and the third for your opponents through the LaMay (sp)
Do I have this right

Thanks

 

[Kreon]

Matthias, I think it's time that I do ask for some help
if you could put together some better detailed guidelines it'd be appreciated

PM me if you're still interested in helping
if you don't have time don't worry about it
Thanks man