Either HSPA+ is 4g or LTE isn't 4G

[Ryaxnb]

Ok so let's recap, the ITU defines 4G as LTE Advanced...
Phone makers get pissed, market LTE as 4g....
market HSPA+ as 4g...
ITU redefines 4G as faster than 3G.

On what planet is LTE 4G but not HSPA+? The original ITU definition excluded both.
The new Definition includes both.
If you say LTE is 4G but HSPA+ is not, you're making a definition that matches neither ITU definition.

 

[alent1234]

LTE and HSPA+ have different modulation methods and LTE is supposed to be the first step in the migration to an all IP network and true VOIP over cellular data

 

[Raswan]

LTE and HSPA+ have different modulation methods and LTE is supposed to be the first step in the migration to an all IP network and true VOIP over cellular data

This, but I agree technically with what you are saying OP, at least in terms of dl and ul speeds.

 

[silverpig]

I seem to recall a time where people were calling HSPA+ 3.9G

There was the old 3G, which was followed by faster 3G, which people called 3.5G. Then HSPA+ came out and some called it 3.9G with LTE and WiMAX being 4G.

Then that went to shit and now everything is 4G.

 

[pm]

In my mind - which can be and probably is completely divorced from reality - I don't care what signalling protocol is used. I expect 2G to be around 0.1Mb/s, 3G to be around 1Mb/s and 4G to be around 10Mb/s. If they stick with speeds that generally fall in those bands, then to me it doesn't matter what protocol they use to achieve it.

 

[smartpatrol]

T-Mobile's HSPA+ gets better speeds around me than Sprint's WiMAX. I've typically seen 6-8 mbps, and that's with a device that supports 21mbps. Some of their newer phones support 42mbps.

 

[shortylickens]

Neither one is true 4G, yet.
But will be sometime in the next few years.

 

[gorcorps]

Neither one is true 4G, yet.
But will be sometime in the next few years.

When HSPA+ came out, we were told it wasn't 4G. When LTE was on the horizon, people said "THIS is the 4g we've been waiting for!" Now, yet again, we're still waiting for the REAL 4g?

No... you know what? Screw that. Can we just admit that everybody's pulling this 3g/4g garbage out of their ass? If we ignore the 4G term and just call it what it is we'll never be confused again. HSPA is HSPA, LTE is LTE, and whatever is next will have a different name too.

 

[bearxor]

OP is correct in that LTE, as we have it now, wasn't technically 4G in the original standards. But the ITU caved to carriers (not handset makers) and started allowing things to be referred to as speeds instead of tech, which makes a lot more sense when you're targeting the average consumer.

Shit, I was surprised when Verizon started advertising 4G by calling it 4'G LTE'. Didn't think they'd care if joe average consumer knew what tech it was, but I suppose it was their way of differentiating from at&t's '4G', which was HSPA+.

I'm with pm though. I don't care, as long as it hits the speeds. I'm perfectly happy with HSPA on my iPhone 4 averaging about 5Mbps.

 

[iahk]

I actually am for them calling it 4G right now.. although I admit at the beginning, I was against it. It's alot easier to talk to regular joe's using the term 4G. Imagine trying to say HSPA+, Wimax, or LTE to a person. Now imagine the carriers trying to explain this to customers. It just easier to just use a single term. I have a feeling this is why the ITU caved.

 

[soccerballtux]

When HSPA+ came out, we were told it wasn't 4G. When LTE was on the horizon, people said "THIS is the 4g we've been waiting for!" Now, yet again, we're still waiting for the REAL 4g?

No... you know what? Screw that. Can we just admit that everybody's pulling this 3g/4g garbage out of their ass? If we ignore the 4G term and just call it what it is we'll never be confused again. HSPA is HSPA, LTE is LTE, and whatever is next will have a different name too.

AT&T is the only one pulling these shenanegans IMO. Over night their "fastest 3G network" became "the largest 4G network"

 

[AkumaX]

Ok so let's recap, the ITU defines 4G as LTE Advanced...
Phone makers get pissed, market LTE as 4g....
market HSPA+ as 4g...
ITU redefines 4G as faster than 3G.

On what planet is LTE 4G but not HSPA+? The original ITU definition excluded both.
The new Definition includes both.
If you say LTE is 4G but HSPA+ is not, you're making a definition that matches neither ITU definition.

Dec 6, 2010 - Over the weekend the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) loosened its definition of 4G (IMT) to include LTE, WiMax, and HSPA+.
IMT-Advanced (true 4G, or 4G-A?) is to be correctly defined as LTE Release 10 and WiMAX 2

http://www.phonearena.com/news/ITU-says-LTE-WiMax-and-HSPA--are-now-officially-4G_id15435

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374564,00.asp

 

[Bateluer]

Ok so let's recap, the ITU defines 4G as LTE Advanced...
Phone makers get pissed, market LTE as 4g....
market HSPA+ as 4g...
ITU redefines 4G as faster than 3G.

On what planet is LTE 4G but not HSPA+? The original ITU definition excluded both.
The new Definition includes both.
If you say LTE is 4G but HSPA+ is not, you're making a definition that matches neither ITU definition.

You got those out of order. It was T-Mobile that began calling their HSPA+ network '4G', which ruffled feathers at Verizon who was moving full bore ahead of LTE. It wasn't until every carrier was calling their networks 4G that the ITU said none of their networks meant the definition of 4G, the carriers cried foul, and the definition of 4G was neutered.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I am under the impression none of them are 4G unless it is LTE advanced.

 

[Bateluer]

I am under the impression none of them are 4G unless it is LTE advanced.

Under the old definition.

Under the new definition, HSPA+, WiMAX, and LTE are all 4G.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

My Gnex is a lie. :c

Except I knew it didnt have true 4g when I got it

 

[Red Storm]

In my mind - which can be and probably is completely divorced from reality - I don't care what signalling protocol is used. I expect 2G to be around 0.1Mb/s, 3G to be around 1Mb/s and 4G to be around 10Mb/s. If they stick with speeds that generally fall in those bands, then to me it doesn't matter what protocol they use to achieve it.

I use this mentality as well.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Guys. This war has been lost. The marketing folks have won. The iPhone 4S is "4G" now, so it's game over.

Surrender terms like "3G" and "4G", they are meaningless. Common folk can call their phones 6G if they like. Us nerds will use more practical terms like HSPA+ 14.4, HSPA+ 42, LTE, etc.

 

[dagamer34]

Marketing terms are BS anyway. The only thing I care about is real world average speeds at peak times. You need to design your network for the worse case scenario when 100% of phones are smartphones sucking up data in the next couple of years otherwise GTFO!

 

[wirednuts]

im pretty sure the real 4g spec calls for 100mbs download... so whenever i see that speed on my phone ill call it 4g but seriously, my cable internet is 30mbs so i think were a decade out yet...

 

[alent1234]

HSPA+ is planned to go up to 100mbps or very close to it

i forgot what the official name for it is but it has release numbers. every year or so a new release number comes out where carriers and OEM's can certify their equipment for it

edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP

hspda is planned to top out at 337mbps

 

[JAG87]

I don't understand why this matters to people. When you buy a phone you know what the maximum UL/DL speeds you can expect (about 40% of whatever the advertised speed is). Who cares if it's labeled 3G/4G/5G...6G

 

[dagamer34]

HSPA+ is planned to go up to 100mbps or very close to it

i forgot what the official name for it is but it has release numbers. every year or so a new release number comes out where carriers and OEM's can certify their equipment for it

edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP

hspda is planned to top out at 337mbps

The problem is the amount of spectrum needed to reach those speeds is unrealistic.

 

[integramodder]

When HSPA+ came out, we were told it wasn't 4G. When LTE was on the horizon, people said "THIS is the 4g we've been waiting for!" Now, yet again, we're still waiting for the REAL 4g?

No... you know what? Screw that. Can we just admit that everybody's pulling this 3g/4g garbage out of their ass? If we ignore the 4G term and just call it what it is we'll never be confused again. HSPA is HSPA, LTE is LTE, and whatever is next will have a different name too.

I agree with you, but you have to remember that most of the purchasing market is brain dead when you it comes to technology. I bet 80% of all people that buy phones dont do research on the manufacturer, the device, or the carrier. The cell phone manufacturers and carriers take advantage of this very fact by advertising their device as the next xxxG.

I think the carriers need to be able to quote a realistic speed and not a generic generation version of the network communication. The quotes should come from standardized tests done in many locations (urban and rural), varied times (high and low traffic), and on different devices. Right now they all pretty much stand a few hundred feet from a tower and test their fastest device, which does nothing to give the consumer a true advertisement of real world performance.