Einstein come here lets chat. E equals MC2

[Nemesis 1]

You wrote this

I was raised AND Was a hardcore Christian - Sunday school, retreats, prayed everyday, even taught Sunday HS kids as an adult- the whole nine yards. I genuinely loved God from within. Then as I grew older, I started to really questions things with a logical mind. And ultimately I became an agnostic two years ago.

If God so truly loved us and is truly omipotent, why does John 3:16 apply? Why only through Jesus we can gain eternity and his love? I'm a mere human and if I were God, I wouldn't create my creations just to mess with them and send them to hell. By the way, thousands throughout the world died yesterday not believing in Christian God and thousands will today as well. Do they go to hell?

I would truly love them whether they believe in me or not. No hell, no eternal suffering. Isn't THAT the REAL unconditional love?

The problem I have is of God's character and its internal contradiction within the book of truth.

God claims to love us yet he's a very moody, jealous and violent god.

Remember,

*Your loving God set village in flames and killed everyone because the townsfolks were gay.
*Your loving God completely murdered and wiped out all children, women and men on the face of this planet with flood, except for one family.
*Your loving God proclaims that if you do not believe in Him, you will suffer in hell in ETERNITY

Doesn't your God possess omniscience? Did he not know how his creations would behave when he created them? Furthermore, aren't we as His creations, merely acting on how we were made by the creator himself?

Then why did He punish us so with great wrath and vengence throughout history?


1). Why only through Jesus we can gain eternity and his love? Because Christ threw is death on the cross won the battle over flesh . Inorder to enter the spirtual world you must cross over the Bridge to heaven which That Bridge is the living word . Lord of lords. The prince of peace.

So I take it your struggling with not ever knowing Christ teachings. Lets say your a man never heard of the Christ. But you live a really good life . Pretty much following the teachings of Christ without ever having heard the good news. Does John 3:16 apply . Yes it does. When the man dies were speaking of he will go to heaven . Your thinking to much with your mind and not your heart. If you follow the teachings of Christ without every hearing the words. You got what few will ever have You carry Christ in your Heart as your mind knows him not. REAL is from the heart.

Your also making another mistake here. It is written so it is. Judge not least you be judged.

I really try to stay out of all the books of the Bible other than the 4 gosphels . It is these 4 gosphels that are salvation.

You got nothing better to do but forum jump. Read those 4 gosphels again . Its like magic . Christ ask nothing from us but to love and care and nerish one another .

The rest of the Bible is nothing more than religion . Read it . It stinks of religion . Were not talking about religion were duscussing faith. The Gosphel really isn't religion. Read it with an open heart and it plain to see its template on a way of life .

You seen preachers out there begging for money . Christ clearly states Give to ceaser that which is Ceasers . Were talking about a coin here. Give to God what is Gods.
What does that mean . Live the life Christ teaches in the Gosphels. God wants us to be good to each other and except him on FAITH!!!. AS Christ had to as a man. His Victory!

The preachers that collect coinage are teaching religion not good acts of faith. The minute you give that preacher coinage you have given the devil(Ceaser) his dues.

Don't confuse religion with God . Religion is all about ceaser. If this thread is allowed to continue I can prove everthing I am saying threw historical facts . If your interested.

Than you wrote this .

*Your loving God set village in flames and killed everyone because the townsfolks were gay.
*Your loving God completely murdered and wiped out all children, women and men on the face of this planet with flood, except for one family.
*Your loving God proclaims that if you do not believe in Him, you will suffer in hell in ETERNITY
First of all lets just say that God is omni potent/omni present/and omniscient. You can't question God. If he is all things at the same time for all time. Think about you. A mortal man questioning the actions God almighty.

Your point 1 above the first* I won't touch that one . because it would upset many. No need for that.

Your point 2 the second* You should study more. Who else was destroyed in that Flood. Did not the angles have sexually relations with Woman and the bore children these were called Nihelem (Spelling Correct spelling Nephilim ) From memory I believe its Geneis 6:6. Not sure it been 40 years since I read it. Again your judging God but can't except his judgements. See something wrong here. Its about faith my friend,

Your point 3 is not true . I would like to read were it says that. Anyone can follow the teachings of Christ without having ever heard the living word. This type A person is vary special . They do Gods bidding without ever thinking about it . They just do right because love of creation (life) is in their heart. They know and love God without every hearing the living word. Weather you know God or not . A just man will not be found in hell.

Baptism . There are 3 types. Water Blood Faith. Again all that is required is live a life God requires. BE GOOD to one another.

Now I will say something about religion . The most misunderstood commandment. Keep Holy the Lords day. Must remeber Christ came to fulfill the law not change it.

Religion took this one Commandment and ran withit . The Lords DAY is not a Day of the WEEK . But A moment In TIME. But man took this one and ran away and hid with it . Again from other sections of the Big book It is written 1 day to God Is As A 1000 years to man . So a millienium is 1 day to God. So mans week days just don't match up the The LORDS day.

What is The Lords Day . Come on we should all know this. Its the day Christ and his army destroys Satin and his army . Total victory is the LORDS on this day. On this day he shall pick out a new name for himselve. And my Lords Lord shall give him dominion over aLL things.

If ya read the book than you would know God gave Dominion of the Earth over to Satin on the day of temptation were man fell out of Gods Grace. Orginal sin. I won't explain this to ya . Because it another sore spot for many. But get yourself a copy of the Jeruslem Bible . Look up the meanings of a few greek and Hebrew words that Occured when the deciever temptied eve. You might find it interesting.

Here is the problem your having I am having and Billions of others are having. Why would God let all this suffering occur in the world. My problem here is I am questioning GODS authority.

God gave Man a special gift other than a mortal life. Its freedom of Choice . We choose. If God intervines its removes choice. Maybe not mine or yours but someware in all tragedy choices are made that effect others. God can't intervine or he removes CHOICE!! A gift not a yoke. But your wareing your gift as a yoke. You must recall God gave Satin dominion over they earth After adam fell from grace. Also recall when Satin tried tempting Christ in the desert. He offered Christ Dominion over the earth.


LOVE/Faith /Hope/ Charity more than just mere words. Live it.


He who has faith and understanding . Will know the meaning of the number of the Beast.

I can't help you out here anymore than this . You must know the ans. yourself. Bit I left hugh Big clue!

 

[feralkid]

A mighty hot dog is our lord.

 

[BradT]

I disagree. E equals MC2, show him what's up.

However, I support this discussion and am glad that you voiced your opinions in a very respectful manner.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Nemesis 1, you have PM

 

[alchemize]

Cliffs?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Nemesis 1, you have PM

Back at ya

 

[glenn1]

This is a very convoluted thread, so let me take a crack at answering some of the questions posed.

If God so truly loved us and is truly omipotent, why does John 3:16 apply?

John 3:16 speaks of the gift of grace, you seem to be implying it's a burden of some kind.

Why only through Jesus we can gain eternity and his love?

See John 1:1-3, or just the concept of the trinity. You can?t keep God but reject Jesus, the two go together (think a combo meal, not self-serve buffet

I'm a mere human and if I were God, I wouldn't create my creations just to mess with them and send them to hell. By the way, thousands throughout the world died yesterday not believing in Christian God and thousands will today as well. Do they go to hell?

Ultimately, where someone goes is not my or anyone else?s call to make. However, it might help to consider what ?hell? means to you. It makes sense to me to think of it as a separation from God, an estrangement from the creator.

I would truly love them whether they believe in me or not. No hell, no eternal suffering. Isn't THAT the REAL unconditional love?

His love doesn?t dependent on belief. Personally, I don?t think that God?s grace is ever out of reach ? there might be a closed door separating God from those who reject him, but it?s locked from the inside and they have the key.

The problem I have is of God's character and its internal contradiction within the book of truth.

Well, to safeguard his reputation and poll numbers, maybe he should skip listing you as a reference on his next resume

God claims to love us yet he's a very moody, jealous and violent god.

Remember, He made women too ? where do you think they got it from?

Remember,

*Your loving God set village in flames and killed everyone because the townsfolks were gay.
*Your loving God completely murdered and wiped out all children, women and men on the face of this planet with flood, except for one family.


*Your loving God proclaims that if you do not believe in Him, you will suffer in hell in ETERNITY

Honestly, if you have such a low opinion of him, why would you even care to join him in Heaven?

Doesn't your God possess omniscience? Did he not know how his creations would behave when he created them? Furthermore, aren't we as His creations, merely acting on how we were made by the creator himself?

I?m guessing you were not able to participate in either philosophy or theology classes in your academic career, otherwise a lot of this ground would have already been covered. In lieu of that, you may wish to read the many articles on this type of topic, here?s a good one to start with: link

Then why did He punish us so with great wrath and vengeance throughout history?

Come judgement day, you can ask Him that.

 

[Estrella]

Why should we take what you say to be truth?

Why should we depend on a book, written by men, to be the word of some Eternal Presence?
Why are the books in the Bible there and not all the others? What makes these better than all the others that were decided upon in the early years of Christianity?

All religions teach basically the same morals and in normal people achieve the same result, why should we not just teach a basic morality to everyone? Why do we need the middle man?

What invalidates all the other religions?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Estrella
Why should we take what you say to be truth?

Why should we depend on a book, written by men, to be the word of some Eternal Presence?
Why are the books in the Bible there and not all the others? What makes these better than all the others that were decided upon in the early years of Christianity?

All religions teach basically the same morals and in normal people achieve the same result, why should we not just teach a basic morality to everyone? Why do we need the middle man?

What invalidates all the other religions?

It is a belief you chose. Who is to say the roman gods were not the true gods? The popes office in the end decides which books are placed to be studied, its like if you went to the history section of a library would you expect to find the national enquirer along with the rest of the reading material?. I think your mixing Church up with the religion too much. The church is a pathway to religion, in the same sense that say personal training is a pathway to better health, it is not needed but it helps.

Secular society does teach a basic morality to each person, but even that morality is based off religion. Your morals might be different from someone else morals though. Person A might think that people should be free to socialize, whereas person B thinks that having a woman alone with a man while unmarried should be criminal. Who is to say who is right? Religion provides a path of morals that we can judge ourselves by.

No one says Christianity or Judaism or Islam or any other religion someone follows is the be all, end all of discussion, but even atheist who follow nothing but science follow in blind faith when you get down to the toughest questions that have yet to be answered.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: feralkid
A mighty hot dog is our lord.

And we ate him. Fireside Theatre FTW! :thumbsup;

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: feralkid
A mighty hot dog is our lord.

And we ate him. Fireside Theatre FTW! :thumbsup:

Edit: never mind, it's too cold for a vacation.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: feralkid
A mighty hot dog is our lord.

And we ate him. Fireside Theatre FTW! :thumbsup:

Shouldn't you be locking this thread instead of posting in it, or are you just taking the opportunity to bash Christians like the good little arrogant atheist you seem to be?

The other Mod, Red Dawn, locked the other thread, and while he is an an open Atheist, doesn't seem to feel the need to bash Christians at every opportunity.

I'm not bashing Christians at all, but I do revere the Fireside Theatre, which I haven't seen quoted on these forums in many a moon.

And, just so you know, I happen to be an ordained inter-faith minister, and NOT the $25 internet piece of paper kind. I matriculated through a wonderful 2 and 1/2 year program, which cost me plenty, but was well, well worth it.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Estrella
Why should we take what you say to be truth?

Why should we depend on a book, written by men, to be the word of some Eternal Presence?
Why are the books in the Bible there and not all the others? What makes these better than all the others that were decided upon in the early years of Christianity?

Constantine I

What invalidates all the other religions?

Why should we depend on a book, written by men, to be the word of some Eternal Presence?.

The prophets were inspired by God and they set it to written word. You can except or reject this idea. It s your choice.

Why are the books in the Bible there and not all the others? What makes these better than all the others that were decided upon in the early years of Christianity?


Great question . Did you read the entire thread if so . I am vary pleased you asked this. As I said already Don't confuse religion and God as being the same as they are not.

Other than Genesis and the four Gosphels . I pretty much view the Bible as a Book about religion. You asked I great Question . Recall when I stated that coinage belongs to ceaser(devil). Guess what The Holy roman Catholic church was setup by A pagan Ceaser. THATS right PAGAN.

Again I will give ya the historical record of the facts. I won't talk on this much because I can really heat up on this one . READ this and follow links to gain great understanding About who and what were dealing with here.




The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik in Turkey), convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first Ecumenical council[1] of the early Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent 'general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy? the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom.

The purpose of the council was to resolve disagreements in the Church of Alexandria over the nature of Jesus in relationship to the Father; in particular, whether Jesus was of the same substance as God the Father or merely of similar substance. St. Alexander of Alexandria and Athanasius took the first position; the popular presbyter Arius, from whom the term Arian controversy comes, took the second. The council decided against the Arians overwhelmingly (of the estimated 250-318 attendees, all but 2 voted against Arius). Another result of the council was an agreement on when to celebrate the resurrection (Pascha in Greek; Easter in modern English), the most important feast of the ecclesiastical calendar. The council decided in favour of celebrating the resurrection on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox, independently of the Hebrew Calendar (see also Quartodecimanism). It authorized the Bishop of Alexandria (presumably using the Alexandrian calendar) to announce annually the exact date to his fellow bishops.

The Council of Nicaea was historically significant because it was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.[2] "It was the first occasion for the development of technical Christology."[2] Further, "Constantine in convoking and presiding over the council signaled a measure of imperial control over the church."[2] Further, a precedent was set for subsequent general councils to create creeds and canons.


Constantine I preside over the council and had a lot of influeance the Council forum was setup by Constantine I also and is still used the same today as it was than.

You have enough info here to get ya started. All the questions you asked stem from this council. Who's in the big book who isn't.

You can learn everthing from this point. Google works great. But if you really want to get confused as to how dirty this fight really is. Learn everthing you can about SAUL /PAUL and why Constantine I insisted this gentle be a Apostle . The only one not choosen by Christ. But By Ceaser Constantine I a pagan at the time.

This isn't a simple black and white problem its hugh. The ramafacations are overwhelming. To stay out of trouble here I say no more . I pointed ya in the right direction . Now research. If you want your question ans more completely. Yes there are other Gosphels . and yes their is info on the Gosphel Of Mary / Gosphel of peter.

But what saul /paul does is write Romans corinthians acts ect ect ect . pAUL PAUL PAUL Paul is stealing the show . amazing. He also introduced Doggma to the HRCC.


Research and learn my friend. PAUL and Constantine I are the ans your looking for.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: feralkid
A mighty hot dog is our lord.

And we ate him. Fireside Theatre FTW! :thumbsup:

Shouldn't you be locking this thread instead of posting in it, or are you just taking the opportunity to bash Christians like the good little arrogant atheist you seem to be?

The other Mod, Red Dawn, locked the other thread, and while he is an an open Atheist, doesn't seem to feel the need to bash Christians at every opportunity.

I'm not bashing Christians at all, but I do revere the Fireside Theatre, which I haven't seen quoted on these forums in many a moon.

And, just so you know, I happen to be an ordained inter-faith minister, and NOT the $25 internet piece of paper kind. I matriculated through a wonderful 2 and 1/2 year program, which cost me plenty, but was well, well worth it.
Really nice qoute in sig for ordained inter-faith minister.

Why exactly should this thread get locked. As long as people are careful . not to step on toes.

 

[StepUp]

Theology discussions are best left for other forums, but I will add my little bit:

RichardE said : No one says Christianity or Judaism or Islam or any other religion someone follows is the be all, end all of discussion, but even atheist who follow nothing but science follow in blind faith when you get down to the toughest questions that have yet to be answered.

This kind of blanket statement is one that I believe is the key fundamental difference between most atheists and most that would claim to be religious. If God were to appear in the flesh, or some other act that indubitably proved God's existence, atheists would not reject it, because they use logic, and not faith to rationalize their beliefs.

If however, one points to the various things that say religion, god, etc. are illogical in the Christian, Islamic, etc. sense, those claims are met with the tone of "God put these there to test our faith". Which is really a conversation stopper, as one cannot argue this point.

Remember, that anyone who practices religion is in someways atheist towards another persons religion. It just so happens that atheists choose to deny one more god than you do.

 

[WHAMPOM]

God is within you, only look for Deity there.

Locked by popular demand.

Elite Senior Mod
Perknose