Eight out of China’s top nine government officials are scientists

[yllus]

I don't mean this as a "China will take over the world" thread, but as a "god damned lawyers run and ruin everything" thread. Is the problem simply that the really good money lies in venues other than the sciences?

Singularity Hub - Eight Out Of China’s Top Nine Government Officials Are Scientists

Did you know that the president of China is a scientist? President Hu Jintao was trained as a hydraulic engineer. Likewise his Premier, Wen Jiabao, is a geomechanical engineer. In fact, 8 out of China’s top 9 government officials are scientists.

What does the scientific prominence atop China’s ruling body say, if anything, about the role of science and technology in China’s ability to compete against the U.S. and the world in terms of innovation and economic might?

Quick, name a scientist member of your government’s top offices.

That’s a tough one if you’re an American, as out of the 535 members of the U.S. Congress, only 22 have science or engineering backgrounds, and of these only two might be considered experienced scientists or engineers. As an American myself, I guess that would explain why I tend to assume all politicians were lawyers in their previous lives.

You have to be pretty popular to get elected, so should we conclude that Chinese people in general look up to and admire their scientists? Former CEO of Lockheed Martin, Norm Augustine, writes in Forbes that that’s exactly the case–and not only in China: “…scientists and engineers are celebrities in most countries. They’re not seen as geeks or misfits, as they too often are in the U.S.”

 

[Throckmorton]

You'd think scientists would be less likely to harass, imprison, and torture political dissidents.

 

[MotF Bane]

Instead, we get lawyers, who often haven't practiced law. But they are somehow to be considered experts on everything. Finance, economics, business, law, engineering, foreign relations, military, science, technology, and the list goes on....

 

[sunzt]

You'd think scientists would be less likely to harass, imprison, and torture political dissidents.

Engineers i could see though.

 

[Jaskalas]

You'd think scientists would be less likely to harass, imprison, and torture political dissidents.

Just because his values are not yours, does not make him foolish or stupid.

 

[nageov3t]

why would China bother having lawyers in the first place? wouldn't that require fair trials, challenging laws, etc?

 

[ShawnD1]

You'd think scientists would be less likely to harass, imprison, and torture political dissidents.

LOL.
Scientists have a long and rich history of being assholes. Isaac Newton was one of the biggest assholes in human history.
http://ty.rannosaur.us/5-geniuses-who-were-massive-assholes/


Anyway, being run by scientists would explain why China and much of Asia cares so much about technology. Meanwhile, USA is in a constant battle to decide whether science funding should be slashed by a lot or slashed completely.

 

[Kadarin]

Did you know that the president of China is a scientist? President Hu Jintao was trained as a hydraulic engineer. Likewise his Premier, Wen Jiabao, is a geomechanical engineer. In fact, 8 out of China’s top 9 government officials are scientists.

Scientist != Engineer

 

[Jaskalas]

Anyway, being run by scientists would explain why China and much of Asia cares so much about technology. Meanwhile, USA is in a constant battle to decide whether science funding should be slashed by a lot or slashed completely.

Only because our broke welfare state has spent every last dime. If we turned the poor into slave labor and sold their organs we'd have plenty of cash for science too.

 

[Kadarin]

Meanwhile, USA is in a constant battle to decide whether science funding should be slashed by a lot or slashed completely.

And replaced with Church-approved ideologically correct "Intelligent Design" theory. Because the real problem with the US these days is that we aren't God-fearing enough. We need to bring God back into our lives.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Yes, but they do not have a leader that won the Nobel Peace Prize only a few months into his presidency.

I wonder if some universities in China offer "reverse engineering" paths for various engineering disciplines?

I look at the mainland Chinese military, I see clones of Soviet equipment.

I look at mainland Chinese consumer electronics, I see (poor) clones of Western European, American and Japanese technology.

The current system in China does not seem to encourage innovation these days...

 

[Infohawk]

Different countries have different "high status" degrees and backgrounds. In some Western European countries, political science is a competitive and prestigious degree. In the US, prestigious law degrees and prestigious business degrees are among the high status paths (I'm not counting University of Phoenix degrees here).

It seems like most third world countries look almost solely to engineering as their "high status" path. At first glance this may seem good but it's mostly irrelevant. I recently met a young third world student who said she wanted to work in fashion but that her parents really wanted to do engineering so she was studying engineering. It's unlikely this person is going to be an engineer for long and even more unlikely that she will be good at her job.

So, in sum, all the story tells me is that these Chinese leaders did their country's equivalent of "hard, competitive, prestigious education." I don't have any reason to believe they are more (or less) rational, intelligent, or moral than our leaders.

 

[sunzt]

So, in sum, all the story tells me is that these Chinese leaders did their country's equivalent of "hard, competitive, prestigious education." I don't have any reason to believe they are more (or less) rational, intelligent, or moral than our leaders.

lol like the GOP presidential circus or uber-libs like Pelosi?

 

[wuliheron]

Like a lot of the Asian Tiger economies I'd be surprised if China wasn't more of a technocracy then the US. Until very recently less then 2% of China ever went on to higher education and they were always the best and the brightest. You didn't buy your education with money, but were given government scholarships.

Having a legal degree wasn't particularly useful for making money and spouting anything other then the party line was illegal. Its nothing like the US were the public, mass media, and big business value a line of shit a mile long more then substance and finding new ways to exploit the system can be more profitable then actually being a productive member of society.

 

[DesiPower]

I think the better word is "Reverse Engineers". I have never seen anything come out of China that the world has never seen before, they just make technology cheap.

 

[yllus]

why would China bother having lawyers in the first place? wouldn't that require fair trials, challenging laws, etc?

Haha, good point.

Scientist != Engineer

You generally need to understand a number of scientific principles to be an engineer. I think that's what the piece is getting at.

I look at the mainland Chinese military, I see clones of Soviet equipment.

I look at mainland Chinese consumer electronics, I see (poor) clones of Western European, American and Japanese technology.

The current system in China does not seem to encourage innovation these days...

I didn't quote the entire piece, but it goes on to compare what was said in the 1980s about Japan to what's being said about China today, and he strikes upon something important: It's one thing to raise a nation's economy out of agriculture into the industrial age, but it's another entirely different thing to make it the leader of the pack. Japan still hasn't shifted gears to be able to do that - China will similarly face problems.

 

[DrPizza]

Only because our broke welfare state has spent every last dime. If we turned the poor into slave labor and sold their organs we'd have plenty of cash for science too.

Growth comes from new innovations, new inventions, new industries.

 

[JTsyo]

You have to be pretty popular to get elected, so should we conclude that Chinese people in general look up to and admire their scientists?

I don't think the Chinese elected many of their top leaders.

In asian society, there does seem to be a preference towards engineers and such. For politics here, it's more about charm and people skills.

 

[Pocatello]

I don't know if this is true or not, but many of my family members who are engineers tend to be very uncompromising. It's either black or white, true or false. If people don't agree with them, then those people are wrong.

 

[MotF Bane]

I don't know if this is true or not, but many of my family members who are engineers tend to be very uncompromising. It's either black or white, true or false. If people don't agree with them, then those people are wrong.

Right.

 

[QuantumPion]

Having scientists/engineers run everything is not necessarily a good idea.

Imagine Sheldon from big bang theory as President of the world. >_<

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Having scientists/engineers run everything is not necessarily a good idea.

Imagine Sheldon from big bang theory as President of the world. >_<

He doesn't count as a scientist/engineer. He counts as a retard.

For politics here, it's more about charm and people skills.

Why is this? In movies and such in America, it always seems to be the smart kids that are picked on, and the 'cool' kids are the dumb, sporty type. Worse, the latter are the ones that everyone seems to aspire to be. Why? The smart kids designed your PC components, your operating system, your phone, your TV and sound system, your air conditioner, the medical supplies and protocols you get treated with to cure you of your various illnesses, your microwave, fridge, stove etc. And instead of respecting them for the quality of life they've given to you through what they've invented, you beat them up and then look up to the guy whose sole purpose in life is to talk to people?

 

[Thump553]

Perhaps it is because that is the direction Chinese society has steered it's best and brightest. In the US we steer them towards MBAs and Wall Street.

 

[yllus]

I don't think the Chinese elected many of their top leaders.

In asian society, there does seem to be a preference towards engineers and such. For politics here, it's more about charm and people skills.

I guess those two things are related to each other - freed from the need to be popular due to the dictatorship system, there's no need for Chinese politicians to focus most of their energy on speaking well or being telegenic. Maybe that makes more room for intellectuals in politics?

I may have just discovered one of the few advantages of a dictatorship.

 

[werepossum]

I don't know if this is true or not, but many of my family members who are engineers tend to be very uncompromising. It's either black or white, true or false. If people don't agree with them, then those people are wrong.

It's good that you recognize that people who disagree with engineers are wrong.

Having scientists/engineers run everything is not necessarily a good idea.

Imagine Sheldon from big bang theory as President of the world. >_<

You mean, President of Sheldearth.