Egyptians call to cancel peace with Israel

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Egyptians are the most anti-American people in the Middle East?

Tell that to the thousands of Americans who go to Egypt each year for vacation.

Does Israel even allow Egyptians to come into Israel? I highly doubt they would allow it.
& I know for a fact Israelis go to Egypt for vacation every day.. so ...

As far as the T.V crap Egypt plays .. I agree with you. It's pure crap and praises suicide bombers.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
Aimster,

Israel allows Egypts to come in. I'm not aware of any restriction to do so.
Israelis go to Sinai peninsula, which IS a part of Egypt, but it's mostly inhabited by Beduis and not Egyptians.
Not many Israelis, if at all, go into mainland Egypt.

 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: techs
Another byproduct of our ill concieved war in Iraq and the Bush administrations policies.

Vote for most moronic and irrelevant statement of the thread ^^
 

IrateLeaf

Member
Jul 27, 2006
183
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: techs
Another byproduct of our ill concieved war in Iraq and the Bush administrations policies.

Vote for most moronic and irrelevant statement of the thread ^^

I just voted!!! I agree with Alchemize!!
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: Gamer X
The destroyed Merkavas that I see every day must be delusions then. Anyway, it is better if you don't feel the catastrophe you are in:laugh:

And Samur, Olmert managed to detroy 80% of Hizbullah. right ?

Actually I think you're right on this one.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Most of the BS being spouted on this forum is from people who haven't spent a day in the Middle East. All they know about 'radicalism', 'hatred', and 'terrorism' in the region is what they hear from second-hand news sources. I would take their opinions with a grain of salt.
 

kobymu

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
576
0
0
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
In case I haven't said that clearly already, I am an Israeli living in Israel.
The peace with Egypt is as cold as it gets - and that's not because of the Israelis.

In the eye of the Egyptians, it seems like they are still bitter for their previous losses and aren't willing to come to terms with the existence of Israel.

you shouldn oversimplify it, it's much more complex than that and you know it (hint: look at profile).

 

IrateLeaf

Member
Jul 27, 2006
183
0
0
Yes it is quite a bit more complicated.
SamurAchzar seems to have done an excellent job simplifying the issue.:D
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Aimster
Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.
I'm sure SamurAchzar knows just as much or more than I do. I was in Taba once for a day, that's the extent of my personal Egyptian experience.
Egypt has political peace with Israel, the Egyptian people are not very comfortable with it.



I guess that means you guys are great "friends".
unishment and aggression that it's taken. Eventually something will trigger a wider war th
Common sense FTW Aimster geez.



Aimster has been in la la land for quite sometime about a lot of issues. I sometimes wonder if he's just trolling or if he believes in half the crap he types. Nuclear weapons or not, IMO Israel simply cannot survive as a nation in the long run if it continues on the course of collective punishment and aggression that it's chosen to take. Sooner or later other countries might get drawn into this fight because of Israels false notions of invinciblity and we'll end up with another world war on our hands, no doubt a nuclear one and who knows what else. Its a bigger gamble for Jewish Israelis though, the numbers don't favor you. Rather than posturing about how you're going to retake the Sinai from the Egyptians, you Israelis should try to figure out ways on how to address their discontent (e.g. quit killing civlians) and make genuine peace with your neighbors rather than constantly creating animosity by trying to bully them around; Arabs and Jews truly are cousins that's for sure (feel free to interpret that how you want). I just wish you would keep your "family feud" to yourselves and not involve the rest of us. Arabs already did enough by screwing over Persia/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Indonesia/India with their viral backward culture which will take centuries to repair and now Israeli lobbyists are screwing America with their neocon fascist ideas.
 

IrateLeaf

Member
Jul 27, 2006
183
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Aimster
Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.
I'm sure SamurAchzar knows just as much or more than I do. I was in Taba once for a day, that's the extent of my personal Egyptian experience.
Egypt has political peace with Israel, the Egyptian people are not very comfortable with it.


Joker has been in la la land for quite sometime about a lot of issues. I sometimes wonder if he's just trolling or if he believes in half the crap he types. or if he is just waking up and typing his dreams on the forum. Nuclear weapons or not, IMO the arab nations simply cannot survive as a collective group of nation in the longrun if they continue on a course of being a collective punching bag for Israel.

The arab nations should just pray that they don`t have to keep taking this punishment over the next 10-15 years.
I can just imagine a world war starting because the arab nations will not leave this little nation carved out by the UN/Europe alone, I wonder if history will look back on this as one if it's biggest mistakes ever.
Then to even believe that afghanistan or pakistan or india or any other country in that region would side with the arabs is rediculous.
Arabs already did enough by screwing over Persia/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Indonesia/India with their viral backward culture.
Its a good thing that Israel has lobbyist who have their heads on straight and are looking out for the best interests of the Israeli people!

Shalom :D
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Aimster
Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.
I'm sure SamurAchzar knows just as much or more than I do. I was in Taba once for a day, that's the extent of my personal Egyptian experience.
Egypt has political peace with Israel, the Egyptian people are not very comfortable with it.



I guess that means you guys are great "friends".
unishment and aggression that it's taken. Eventually something will trigger a wider war th
Common sense FTW Aimster geez.



Aimster has been in la la land for quite sometime about a lot of issues. I sometimes wonder if he's just trolling or if he believes in half the crap he types. Nuclear weapons or not, IMO Israel simply cannot survive as a nation in the long run if it continues on the course of collective punishment and aggression that it's chosen to take. Sooner or later other countries might get drawn into this fight because of Israels false notions of invinciblity and we'll end up with another world war on our hands, no doubt a nuclear one and who knows what else. Its a bigger gamble for Jewish Israelis though, the numbers don't favor you. Rather than posturing about how you're going to retake the Sinai from the Egyptians, you Israelis should try to figure out ways on how to address their discontent (e.g. quit killing civlians) and make genuine peace with your neighbors rather than constantly creating animosity by trying to bully them around; Arabs and Jews truly are cousins that's for sure (feel free to interpret that how you want).

I just wish you would keep your semitic family feud to yourselves and not involve the rest of us. Arabs already did enough by screwing over Persia/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Indonesia/India with their culture which will take centuries to repair.

Seems like you've missed the course of events for the last, eh, 60 years? Arab states have been drawn into this already. They have lost. As long as they will continue loosing in conflicts with Israel, Israel will prevail. The day Israel seems weak and incapable of defending itself, hell will break loose.
You portray Arabs as dumb animals that are motivated by anger and revenge alone. They are not. When they know their actions will be met with a price tag, they think before attacking. Nassarallah would NOT have gone to this adventure were he knew what's to come, Hizbullah said they were surprised by the severe Israeli reaction.

Syria hasn't attacked Israel since '73, despite Israel having the entire Golan heights.

You just can't turn around the past to your liking. Not ONE Lebanese was killed between the retreat of Israel from southern Lebanon and the Hizbullah attack. Yet they attacked. Why? Because Israel seemed weak.

Israel must remain strong at least until Arabs step out of their private medieval and start taking care of themselves and not aiming to destroy others.
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: IrateLeaf
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Aimster
Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.
I'm sure SamurAchzar knows just as much or more than I do. I was in Taba once for a day, that's the extent of my personal Egyptian experience.
Egypt has political peace with Israel, the Egyptian people are not very comfortable with it.


Joker has been in la la land for quite sometime about a lot of issues. I sometimes wonder if he's just trolling or if he believes in half the crap he types. or if he is just waking up and typing his dreams on the forum. Nuclear weapons or not, IMO the arab nations simply cannot survive as a collective group of nation in the longrun if they continue on a course of being a collective punching bag for Israel.

The arab nations should just pray that they don`t have to keep taking this punishment over the next 10-15 years.
Pakistan wants no part of Israel, especially since Israel supplies India with arms, and the Soviet Union has been interfering in Indian affairs by arming Pakistan with military tech. As long as the Arab nations leave Israel alone and stick to their own borders and stop interfering in other countries affairs all will be well. I can just imagine a world war starting because the arab nations will not leave this little nation carved out by the UN/Europe alone, I wonder if history will look back on it as one if it's biggest mistakes ever.

Shalom :D



You got it backward there chief, USSR was India's foremost ally and supplier of weaponry during the cold war. Pakistan has always been a traditional ally of the US and now more recently China. Israel meddling in South Asian politics is just an extension of it's intent to interfere with any Muslim country it can, especially a nuclear armed one and that's like playing with matches next to a powder keg.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
If Dr. Khan (sp?) can light his matches near the powder keg that's nuclear Israel by providing Iran with nuclear technology, Israel can certainly sell arms to India.

 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Aimster
Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.
I'm sure SamurAchzar knows just as much or more than I do. I was in Taba once for a day, that's the extent of my personal Egyptian experience.
Egypt has political peace with Israel, the Egyptian people are not very comfortable with it.



I guess that means you guys are great "friends".
unishment and aggression that it's taken. Eventually something will trigger a wider war th
Common sense FTW Aimster geez.



Aimster has been in la la land for quite sometime about a lot of issues. I sometimes wonder if he's just trolling or if he believes in half the crap he types. Nuclear weapons or not, IMO Israel simply cannot survive as a nation in the long run if it continues on the course of collective punishment and aggression that it's chosen to take. Sooner or later other countries might get drawn into this fight because of Israels false notions of invinciblity and we'll end up with another world war on our hands, no doubt a nuclear one and who knows what else. Its a bigger gamble for Jewish Israelis though, the numbers don't favor you. Rather than posturing about how you're going to retake the Sinai from the Egyptians, you Israelis should try to figure out ways on how to address their discontent (e.g. quit killing civlians) and make genuine peace with your neighbors rather than constantly creating animosity by trying to bully them around; Arabs and Jews truly are cousins that's for sure (feel free to interpret that how you want).

I just wish you would keep your semitic family feud to yourselves and not involve the rest of us. Arabs already did enough by screwing over Persia/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Indonesia/India with their culture which will take centuries to repair.

Seems like you've missed the course of events for the last, eh, 60 years? Arab states have been drawn into this already. They have lost. As long as they will continue loosing in conflicts with Israel, Israel will prevail. The day Israel seems weak and incapable of defending itself, hell will break loose.
You portray Arabs as dumb animals that are motivated by anger and revenge alone. They are not. When they know their actions will be met with a price tag, they think before attacking. Nassarallah would NOT have gone to this adventure were he knew what's to come, Hizbullah said they were surprised by the severe Israeli reaction.

Syria hasn't attacked Israel since '73, despite Israel having the entire Golan heights.

You just can't turn around the past to your liking. Not ONE Lebanese was killed between the retreat of Israel from southern Lebanon and the Hizbullah attack. Yet they attacked. Why? Because Israel seemed weak.

Israel must remain strong at least until Arabs step out of their private medieval and start taking care of themselves and not aiming to destroy others.



I'm sure the Arabs aren't stupid enough to collectively attack again, they simply don't have the military infrastructure to carry out such an assault. But if the worlds oil supply is threatened in a wider middle eastern conflict then you can probably rest assured other world powers would become interested in interfering (if only to stake their own political claims there). I'm not worried about the Arabs, I'm more worried about Israelis--in all their arrogance--launching nuclear weapons and getting the rest of the world involved in a nuclear holocaust. One of the biggest mistakes the US or the world at large has made is letting Israel get away with building nuclear weapons.
 

IrateLeaf

Member
Jul 27, 2006
183
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: IrateLeaf
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: Aimster
Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.
I'm sure SamurAchzar knows just as much or more than I do. I was in Taba once for a day, that's the extent of my personal Egyptian experience.
Egypt has political peace with Israel, the Egyptian people are not very comfortable with it.


Joker has been in la la land for quite sometime about a lot of issues. I sometimes wonder if he's just trolling or if he believes in half the crap he types. or if he is just waking up and typing his dreams on the forum. Nuclear weapons or not, IMO the arab nations simply cannot survive as a collective group of nation in the longrun if they continue on a course of being a collective punching bag for Israel.

The arab nations should just pray that they don`t have to keep taking this punishment over the next 10-15 years.
Pakistan wants no part of Israel, especially since Israel supplies India with arms, and the Soviet Union has been interfering in Indian affairs by arming Pakistan with military tech. As long as the Arab nations leave Israel alone and stick to their own borders and stop interfering in other countries affairs all will be well. I can just imagine a world war starting because the arab nations will not leave this little nation carved out by the UN/Europe alone, I wonder if history will look back on it as one if it's biggest mistakes ever.

Shalom :D



You got it backward there chief, USSR was India's foremost ally and supplier of weaponry during the cold war. Pakistan has always been a traditional ally of the US and now more recently China. Israel meddling in South Asian politics is just an extension of it's intent to interfere with any Muslim country it can, especially a nuclear armed one and that's like playing with matches next to a powder keg.

I don`t think i got anything wrong....show me where I said that? Are you doctoring posts again before commenting on them Joker....hmmmm
 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
If Dr. Khan (sp?) can light his matches near the powder keg that's nuclear Israel by providing Iran with nuclear technology, Israel can certainly sell arms to India.



The good doctor was acting on his own self interests supposedly because he was cash strapped. Personally I think he was a scapegoat for previous leaders that were cashing in on selling the tech themselves and they conveniently put the blame on him. Regardless, those motives more than likely had very little to do with middle eastern and/or Israeli affairs, they were driven by greed. Israel's desire to arm India with advanced radars and/or Arrow defense missiles is a clear indication of it's aggressive intent against even non-Arab Muslim nations that have nothing to do with it's affairs.
 

IrateLeaf

Member
Jul 27, 2006
183
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
If Dr. Khan (sp?) can light his matches near the powder keg that's nuclear Israel by providing Iran with nuclear technology, Israel can certainly sell arms to India.



The good doctor was acting on his own self interests supposedly because he was cash strapped. Personally I think he was a scapegoat for previous leaders that were cashing in on selling the tech themselves and they conveniently put the blame on him. Regardless, those motives more than likely had very little to do with middle eastern and/or Israeli affairs, they were driven by greed. Israel's desire to arm India with advanced radars and/or Arrow defense missiles is a clear indication of it's aggressive intent against even non-Arab Muslim nations that have nothing to do with it's affairs.

BTW-- http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Israel...FP-tab-web-t410&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/mo...id/12386/format/html/displaystory.html

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?t=754

http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=629e7867d4487c7d

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010814/world.htm


hell--Israel is even selling arms to China--now thats interesting!
Article after article of Israel selling arms to india.......your in over your head Joker...rofl

 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: IrateLeaf
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
If Dr. Khan (sp?) can light his matches near the powder keg that's nuclear Israel by providing Iran with nuclear technology, Israel can certainly sell arms to India.



The good doctor was acting on his own self interests supposedly because he was cash strapped. Personally I think he was a scapegoat for previous leaders that were cashing in on selling the tech themselves and they conveniently put the blame on him. Regardless, those motives more than likely had very little to do with middle eastern and/or Israeli affairs, they were driven by greed. Israel's desire to arm India with advanced radars and/or Arrow defense missiles is a clear indication of it's aggressive intent against even non-Arab Muslim nations that have nothing to do with it's affairs.

BTW-- http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Israel...FP-tab-web-t410&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/mo...id/12386/format/html/displaystory.html

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?t=754

http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=629e7867d4487c7d

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010814/world.htm


hell--Israel is even selling arms to China--now thats interesting!
Article after article of Israel selling arms to india.......your in over your head Joker...rofl



I already know Israel is selling arms to India, what do you think I've been talking about in the last couple of posts? The desert heat in Israel must be rotting your little brain. ;)
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
If Dr. Khan (sp?) can light his matches near the powder keg that's nuclear Israel by providing Iran with nuclear technology, Israel can certainly sell arms to India.



The good doctor was acting on his own self interests supposedly because he was cash strapped. Personally I think he was a scapegoat for previous leaders that were cashing in on selling the tech themselves and they conveniently put the blame on him. Regardless, those motives more than likely had very little to do with middle eastern and/or Israeli affairs, they were driven by greed. Israel's desire to arm India with advanced radars and/or Arrow defense missiles is a clear indication of it's aggressive intent against even non-Arab Muslim nations that have nothing to do with it's affairs.

Lets assume he was doing what he did on his own behalf. Ok.

Two questions remain:

1. Why on EARTH would Israel want a conflict with any other country? Any logical reason? You can't blame it on religion as Israel is far from being a religious country (I'm certainly aetheistic, so are the majority here). Why, then?

2. Israel sells weapons to whoever it can. Israel has a very large weapons industry and is somewhere among the top 5 or top 3 in terms of military export. Of course we would all rather Israel being the lead exporter of shoes, but it comes with the territory, what can you do.
Now, what's wrong with selling to India?
Did you know Israel was a major supplier of weaponary to Iran in the days before the Islamic revolution? They were still Islamic then.

Where does this paranoia come from anyway? You seem like a reasonable person, why do you loose any sense of logic when it comes to Israel?


 

5150Joker

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2002
5,549
0
71
www.techinferno.com
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
If Dr. Khan (sp?) can light his matches near the powder keg that's nuclear Israel by providing Iran with nuclear technology, Israel can certainly sell arms to India.



The good doctor was acting on his own self interests supposedly because he was cash strapped. Personally I think he was a scapegoat for previous leaders that were cashing in on selling the tech themselves and they conveniently put the blame on him. Regardless, those motives more than likely had very little to do with middle eastern and/or Israeli affairs, they were driven by greed. Israel's desire to arm India with advanced radars and/or Arrow defense missiles is a clear indication of it's aggressive intent against even non-Arab Muslim nations that have nothing to do with it's affairs.

Lets assume he was doing what he did on his own behalf. Ok.

Two questions remain:

1. Why on EARTH would Israel want a conflict with any other country? Any logical reason? You can't blame it on religion as Israel is far from being a religious country (I'm certainly aetheistic, so are the majority here). Why, then?

That's a question for Israel to answer isn't it? It's the entire reason I even brought it up because it's a reckless course of action. South Asia is anything but stable and given the fact that there are two nuclear armed rivals there intent on blowing each other up, Israel sticking its nose in a hornets nest and offering the largely hindu nation advanced weaponry reinforces the mindset amongst Muslims that the Israelis are out to get them even if they aren't Arabs. Israel's desire to sell these weapons to India may be primarily driven by avarice but that doesn't mean Pakistani Muslims are going to take comfort in that fact. Given the fact that Israel has such turbulent relations with Arabs already, you'd think they would make an effort not to alienate non-Arab Muslims? Remember, you can't compare Dr. Khan's supposed network to Israel's military machine since he was conducting black market sales.


2. Israel sells weapons to whoever it can. Israel has a very large weapons industry and is somewhere among the top 5 or top 3 in terms of military export. Of course we would all rather Israel being the lead exporter of shoes, but it comes with the territory, what can you do.
Now, what's wrong with selling to India?


See above. It's disastrous for Indian/Pak relations, Indian/Sino relations and Pak/Israeli relations, all in the name of profit. I won't blame Israel only though, the US is just as guilty if not more.


Did you know Israel was a major supplier of weaponary to Iran in the days before the Islamic revolution? They were still Islamic then.


I fail to see what that has to do with the current political climate? I've even read stories that there's a larger conspiracy going on between Israel and Iran and it ties back to what you mentioned but that seems quite far fetched. If I find the link I"ll post it here, it's good for a laugh or two.

Where does this paranoia come from anyway? You seem like a reasonable person, why do you loose any sense of logic when it comes to Israel?


I'm not sure where you're seeing paranoia on my part from. I think I've given you a rational reason for why I think it's a bad idea for Israel to be engaging in military sales to India since it only serves as catalyst for further anti-Semitic sentiment and it hastens the nuclear arms race in South Asia. One would think Israel would be just as concerned about it's image as it is in making money from arms sales.


BTW, if Israelis are largely athiests like you claim, then what was the point in forming Israel? From what I've heard, Judaism now accepts converts so one can't even attribute it to a desire for a homeland for a racial group. So if the people there aren't even tied by blood anymore (due to Judaism accepting converts who have no semitic ancestry) and are largely athiests, then Israel itself should have no reason to remain a Jewish state; it should become secular.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
3
76
You can look at it from the opposite direction - Israel looks at India as an ally, and Israel needs all the allies it can get. Although I'm not certain myself about the motives behind the Indian deal. It's probably money and not much else.

I fail to see what that has to do with the current political climate?

Nothing to do with the climate, but does address your concern that Israel is conspiring against Muslim countries.

I'm not sure where you're seeing paranoia on my part from. I think I've given you a rational reason for why I think it's a bad idea for Israel to be engaging in military sales to India since it only serves as catalyst for further anti-Semitic sentiment and it hastens the nuclear arms race in South Asia. One would think Israel would be just as concerned about it's image as it is in making money from arms sales.

Put this way, I can agree with you to an extent. The problem is that most conflicts around the world involve Muslims in one way or another, and Israel does need to sell something.

BTW, if Israelis are largely athiests like you claim, then what was the point in forming Israel? From what I've heard, Judaism now accepts converts so one can't even attribute it to a desire for a homeland for a racial group. So if the people there aren't even tied by blood anymore (due to Judaism accepting converts who have no semitic ancestry) and are largely athiests, then Israel itself should have no reason to remain a Jewish state; it should become secular.

Israel was not formed on a clear religious basis. Most people who created Israel were complete aetheists. The extermely religious Jews (Hasidim) are mostly outside of Israel and generally don't support the state of Israel as they see it as blasphemy - they claim Israel must only be created when the Messiah arrives. The worst of that group, "Naturi Karta", even support Iran, Hamas and other do-gooders in their struggle against the state of Israel.

Israel was created as a home for the Jewish people. It's a weird blend between religion and ethnicity. It's a direct result of the Holocaust. Nazis weren't discriminating between religious and non-religious Jews, which triggered the survival instinct in all Jews alike, realizing they should create a national home.

Note that probably as many Jews as those who went to Israel, went, during WWII and after, to US and live happily ever after.

Honestly, I'm just a regular guy like every aetheist American that looks for normal life. For me, and most of Israelis, this conflict has nothing to do with god, only our right to exist peacefully.

Lets put it this way - Were I to make the decision of where to go to during WWII, I'd choose the US. But to each his own...

The reason Israel, however, must remain a Jewish state is because of the possibility of another Holocaust. You can't dismiss this argument as history proves it might realize.
Besides, if Israel is not Jewish, it will not be Christian either. It's going to become Muslim over time. If you look at how the Muslim countries surrounding Israel look, you will understand why people like me have any interest it won't happen.

Ironic as it may be, Israel must remain Jewish to remain a part of the West.
 

kobymu

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
576
0
0
Originally posted by: 5150Joker
... then Israel itself should have no reason to remain a Jewish state; it should become secular.

Israel is a Jewish secular democratic state.

If Israel where to be a Jewish orthodox state it couldent be a true democracy, hell it would be a theocracy.

edit
is it orthodox Jewish or Jewish orthodox?

edit2
SamurAchzar == ???? ???? ?
 

kobymu

Senior member
Mar 21, 2005
576
0
0
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
SamurAchzar == ???? ???? ?
That is, unfortunately, correct :D
k, on second thought i kinda like it. ;)

And btw after some years in debating with non israelis i have come to conclusion that whenever i say something (as in an opinion and not just simple facts), it must come with the following disclaimer:
Whenever I state my opinion on the middle east and especially Israel, I must oversimplify things.
For Israel is, by far, the most complicated place on earth.
Just a little piece of advice...

 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Why are people under the illusion that India and Israel favor each other? Nothing could be further from the truth. India has always supported the Arab cause. That's why when Indians kill hundreds of muslims, you don't hear a peep from the Arab world.

The only friend Israel really has in Asia is China. Let's not forget that China supports Pakistan, which is India's arch foe.