Egyptians call to cancel peace with Israel

[SamurAchzar]

Article

Quite amazing, but not unexpected. After arming themselves with US' finest and receiving monetary support the size of Israel's - and that's FOR MAINTAINING PEACE - they turn around.

That just goes to show how worthy is the peace in the Middle East. This region has always understood force and force alone, and it will remain this way until the Arab nation develops and steps out of its medieval. Maybe the Internet will rush things, so expect about 100 years of war still to come.

Well, Gamer X, it looks like you're about to lose Sinai again in few years.

 

[kage69]

Don't make the assumption that because we sold them some Abrams tanks that they have been "arming themselves with Americas finest." Any SuperHornets or Aegis destroyers in Egypts inventory? Nope.


Between and Egyptian tank of any variety and an Israeli Apache, I'd bet on the Apache.
The USA's monetery donations to Egypt are just as out of place as the ones given to Israel IMO.

Regardless, these are Egyptian judges calling for this. When Mubarak himself starts making sentiments to that tune, then you can start to worry.

 

[Aimster]

stop being so closed-minded why dont you?

I can pull out an article with thousands of people in the U.S marching to impeach Bush and holding anti-Bush slogans. Yet, we all know that is never going to happen and the majority obviously didnt want that to happen.

 

[Aimster]

& Egypt's military is not designed for an offensive attack. It is all defensive.

Egypt has no intentions of attacking Israel or cutting off relations.

The two nations and the people are friends.

/Thread

 

[lozina]

Yeah let's just ignore the real source of the problems... the Israeli occupation and now the bombing of Lebanese civilians

Instead let's just pretend the Arabs are bloodthirsty animals (i.e. "only know the use of force")

 

[kage69]

...and the majority obviously didnt want that to happen.

Oh really?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Aimster
& Egypt's military is not designed for an offensive attack. It is all defensive.

Egypt has no intentions of attacking Israel or cutting off relations.

The two nations and the people are friends.

/Thread

Overstatement of the year.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Aimster
& Egypt's military is not designed for an offensive attack. It is all defensive.

Egypt has no intentions of attacking Israel or cutting off relations.

The two nations and the people are friends.

/Thread

Overstatement of the year.

Sorry I think not.

The borders the two nations share are open and people from Israel go to Egypt to vacation on a daily basis.

 

[SamurAchzar]

The problem is, Egypt is not a democracy. In a democracy, there's some contingency of the public opinion between goverments, not so in a dictatorship.
You and I both don't know what's the real sentinemt among the Egyptian public, and regardless, if the next regime is fundementalist, it's a huge probelm.

It's a known fact that Egypt's war games all revolve around a conflict with Israel.

They have vast amount of American weapons, including F16 jets and Apache helicopters.

Text

Fortunately, Israel has many unique weapon systems, but still, you have to wonder about the future in this case.

The two nations and the people are friends.

I don't think you can say that. There aren't many, if at all, Egyptian tourists in Israel and the Israeli tourists mostly visit Sinai, without crossing into mainland Egypt.

I think Israel has made a huge mistake when it signed the peace agreement with Egypt. Not that I don't want peace, on the contrary, but Israel lost Sinai as well as made Egypt a legitimate source for weapon exporting. It has created a monster for what seems like little temporary peace.
Israel would have been much better if Egypt remained the same status of Syria. The Syrian border is the quietest Israel has. The Egyptian border is a mess, with smuggling of drugs, arms and people on daily basis.

There's no substantial commercial trading between the countries.

BTW, funny as it seems, my grandfather was born and raised in Egypt before arriving to Israel during his 20's (he's Jewish, obviously).

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Aimster
& Egypt's military is not designed for an offensive attack. It is all defensive.

Egypt has no intentions of attacking Israel or cutting off relations.

The two nations and the people are friends.

/Thread

Overstatement of the year.

Sorry I think not.

The borders the two nations share are open and people from Israel go to Egypt to vacation on a daily basis.

The average Egyptian doesn't love the Israeli's as much as you do, religious fundamentalism is on the rise in Egypt as well. There's a lot of bad blood there, things are better than they were 25 years ago, but they aren't friends by any definition that am aware of.

 

[Doboji]

I find the concept absolutely frightening... this is the reason why Israel holds nuclear weapons, and a clear military advantage... without it... Israel would not exist.

 

[EagleKeeper]

It is a group of Judges, not the Egyptian government.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I find the concept absolutely frightening... this is the reason why Israel holds nuclear weapons, and a clear military advantage... without it... Israel would not exist.

Technically, without the UN . . . Israel would not exist.

Without nukes and clear conventional weapons superiority . . . Israel would not continue to exist.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
It is a group of Judges, not the Egyptian government.

The goverment is a group of Mubarak puppets, probably. What counts is the goverment at the day after Mubarak. He's old now, and if a militant inherits the leadership, we could see the rise of the Arab nationalism once again, only under the Islamic flag, fueled by military power that the US helped building.

 

[Aimster]

There is no love or hate between Egypt/Israel. Do you love the Mexicans to our South? Nobody said they have to be in love in order to have peace.

& I do not LOVE Israel.

People in the U.S protest Mexico a lot. Yet, the people are not going around killing each other. This is with the Mexicans believing that part of the U.S still belongs to Mexico and that one day they will get their land back (mindset of many Mexicans in the South, esp. California).

If Egyptians were out to kill Israelis they would be doing so right now. They have 80 million people in their small country.

& before you go on and comment about my post, talk to someone who actually visited Egypt. They will tell you the people of Egypt are kind and loving towards everyone (even U.S military pers.)

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Aimster
& Egypt's military is not designed for an offensive attack. It is all defensive.

Egypt has no intentions of attacking Israel or cutting off relations.

The two nations and the people are friends.

/Thread

I agreed with you until the last sentence. The two nations may officially be at peace, but the "people" are definitely NOT friends.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: lozina
Yeah let's just ignore the real source of the problems... the Israeli occupation and now the bombing of Lebanese civilians

Instead let's just pretend the Arabs are bloodthirsty animals (i.e. "only know the use of force")

Israeli occupation of what? They only invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 when they were directly attacked from there by Syrian-backed militants. The UN told them to get out in '78, and they did. In '82, they agreed to leave if Syria would do the same and the militias attacking them were disarmed; the UN passed a resolution to that effect, but Syria and the militias REFUSED, and Israel eventually pulled out unilaterally in 2000. Syria did not leave until 2005 after Hariri's assassination when it was FORCED out by the Lebanese, and Hezbollah has yet to even consider complying with its part of the resolutions.

So until the last couple of weeks, Israel did not occupy ONE SINGLE INCH of Lebanese territory, and therefore you are completely full of sh*t. Congrats. You've been fooled by the dumbest people on Earth.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: lozina
Yeah let's just ignore the real source of the problems... the Israeli occupation and now the bombing of Lebanese civilians

Instead let's just pretend the Arabs are bloodthirsty animals (i.e. "only know the use of force")

Israeli occupation of what? They only invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 when they were directly attacked from there by Syrian-backed militants. The UN told them to get out in '78, and they did. In '82, they agreed to leave if Syria would do the same and the militias attacking them were disarmed; the UN passed a resolution to that effect, but Syria and the militias REFUSED, and Israel eventually pulled out unilaterally in 2000. Syria did not leave until 2005 after Hariri's assassination when it was FORCED out by the Lebanese, and Hezbollah has yet to even consider complying with its part of the resolutions.

So until the last couple of weeks, Israel did not occupy ONE SINGLE INCH of Lebanese territory, and therefore you are completely full of sh*t. Congrats. You've been fooled by the dumbest people on Earth.

Depends on who you ask . . . Haaretz

another Haaretz

On Saturday night she came to Jerusalem and asked Olmert to give up the Shaba Farms on the slopes of the Hermon. The withdrawal would be presented as an achievement for Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. Olmert said no.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Aimster
There is no love or hate between Egypt/Israel. Do you love the Mexicans to our South? Nobody said they have to be in love in order to have peace.

& I do not LOVE Israel.

People in the U.S protest Mexico a lot. Yet, the people are not going around killing each other. This is with the Mexicans believing that part of the U.S still belongs to Mexico and that one day they will get their land back (mindset of many Mexicans in the South, esp. California).

If Egyptians were out to kill Israelis they would be doing so right now. They have 80 million people in their small country.

& before you go on and comment about my post, talk to someone who actually visited Egypt. They will tell you the people of Egypt are kind and loving towards everyone (even U.S military pers.)

Ehh, didn't Egypt attack Israel like 6 times, including immediately after Israel's inception - in '49 or so?

I think they have a pretty long standing record of aggression towards the state of Israel.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: lozina
Yeah let's just ignore the real source of the problems... the Israeli occupation and now the bombing of Lebanese civilians

Instead let's just pretend the Arabs are bloodthirsty animals (i.e. "only know the use of force")

Israeli occupation of what? They only invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 when they were directly attacked from there by Syrian-backed militants. The UN told them to get out in '78, and they did. In '82, they agreed to leave if Syria would do the same and the militias attacking them were disarmed; the UN passed a resolution to that effect, but Syria and the militias REFUSED, and Israel eventually pulled out unilaterally in 2000. Syria did not leave until 2005 after Hariri's assassination when it was FORCED out by the Lebanese, and Hezbollah has yet to even consider complying with its part of the resolutions.

So until the last couple of weeks, Israel did not occupy ONE SINGLE INCH of Lebanese territory, and therefore you are completely full of sh*t. Congrats. You've been fooled by the dumbest people on Earth.

Depends on who you ask . . . Haaretz

another Haaretz

On Saturday night she came to Jerusalem and asked Olmert to give up the Shaba Farms on the slopes of the Hermon. The withdrawal would be presented as an achievement for Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. Olmert said no.

Shaba farms officialy belong to Syria. That's why it's still held by Israel.
According to UN resolution 1559, Israel has COMPLETELY evacuated any Lebanese "occupied" (becuase it's not really occupied, it's used for military means, not even one Israeli civilian has ever stepped on this land) territory.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: lozina
Yeah let's just ignore the real source of the problems... the Israeli occupation and now the bombing of Lebanese civilians

Instead let's just pretend the Arabs are bloodthirsty animals (i.e. "only know the use of force")

Israeli occupation of what? They only invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 when they were directly attacked from there by Syrian-backed militants. The UN told them to get out in '78, and they did. In '82, they agreed to leave if Syria would do the same and the militias attacking them were disarmed; the UN passed a resolution to that effect, but Syria and the militias REFUSED, and Israel eventually pulled out unilaterally in 2000. Syria did not leave until 2005 after Hariri's assassination when it was FORCED out by the Lebanese, and Hezbollah has yet to even consider complying with its part of the resolutions.

So until the last couple of weeks, Israel did not occupy ONE SINGLE INCH of Lebanese territory, and therefore you are completely full of sh*t. Congrats. You've been fooled by the dumbest people on Earth.

Depends on who you ask . . . Haaretz

another Haaretz

On Saturday night she came to Jerusalem and asked Olmert to give up the Shaba Farms on the slopes of the Hermon. The withdrawal would be presented as an achievement for Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. Olmert said no.

The argument against that would be that Sheba is, if anything, Syrian not Lebanese land. Lebanon's first claim to the land was in 2000.

Just for kicks, here's from the Wiki entry on Sheba. Text

In 2000, in what appears to be the Lebanese government's first claim to the territory, Lebanon disputed Israel's compliance with UN Resolution 425(1978). Lebanon claimed that the Shebaa farms area was actually Lebanese, and that the Israelis should therefore withdraw from there as well. Lebanon asserted that the UN certification of the Israeli withdrawal was "invalid," because of Lebanon's claim to the Shebaa Farms.[7]

Lebanese officials point to land deeds, stamped by the Lebanese government, that were held by a number of area residents area in the 1940s and 1950s.

Nevertheless, the current Lebanese claim to this area is one reason now asserted for Hezbollah's continuing conflict with Israel, and cross-border attacks.[8] However, Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the area: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from.? New Yorker, (October 14, 2002).

That would seem to indicate that Sheba has nothing to do with Hezbollah's problem with Israel.

 

[Aimster]

Egypt, Jordan havent attacked Israel for a long time. That is far into the past.

& as for the Egypt-Israel relations.. ask an Israeli who has lived there.
ThePresence probably knows the situation better than all of us.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: lozina
Yeah let's just ignore the real source of the problems... the Israeli occupation and now the bombing of Lebanese civilians

Instead let's just pretend the Arabs are bloodthirsty animals (i.e. "only know the use of force")

Israeli occupation of what? They only invaded Lebanon in 1978 and 1982 when they were directly attacked from there by Syrian-backed militants. The UN told them to get out in '78, and they did. In '82, they agreed to leave if Syria would do the same and the militias attacking them were disarmed; the UN passed a resolution to that effect, but Syria and the militias REFUSED, and Israel eventually pulled out unilaterally in 2000. Syria did not leave until 2005 after Hariri's assassination when it was FORCED out by the Lebanese, and Hezbollah has yet to even consider complying with its part of the resolutions.

So until the last couple of weeks, Israel did not occupy ONE SINGLE INCH of Lebanese territory, and therefore you are completely full of sh*t. Congrats. You've been fooled by the dumbest people on Earth.

Depends on who you ask . . . Haaretz

another Haaretz

On Saturday night she came to Jerusalem and asked Olmert to give up the Shaba Farms on the slopes of the Hermon. The withdrawal would be presented as an achievement for Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. Olmert said no.

Shaba farms officialy belong to Syria. That's why it's still held by Israel.
According to UN resolution 1559, Israel has COMPLETELY evacuated any Lebanese "occupied" (becuase it's not really occupied, it's used for military means, not even one Israeli civilian has ever stepped on this land) territory.

yeah, then how about stop occupying syria's land and leave it to lebanon and syria to solve the issue on those farms?

and for that matter leave whatever land they are occupying, should go along way of removing some of the reasons people have for being hostile towards isreal

 

[straightalker]

Israel lacks manpower. Surrounding them are at least 250 million Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran.

The strategy currently being used by Israel's many neighboring enemies is to prepare to pound Israel with Scud sized missiles and larger. Not katyusha spitballs that barely punch a hole in the ground.

The neighbors know Irael's weaknesses. Also, after Israel looses Tel Aviv and perhaps two or three other major cities and is covered in large parts by nuclear fallout, the tables will begin to turn of Israel's military advantages.

I firmly suspect Israel is going to get nuked soon if they keep up their current war-machine momentum. Syria allegedely has nukes and so does Iran. That's from some sources closest to the situation. I don't doubt that at all.

Egypt will not respond well when Israel retaliates by nuking in return several Muslim cities in Syria and Iran. The war will escalate and the border between Egypt and Israel will become very tense. Isrtael had better stay healthy among so many wolves. A serious weakness could invite disaster. Invasion.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: straightalker
Israel lacks manpower. Surrounding them are at least 250 million Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran.

The strategy currently being used by Israel's many neighboring enemies is to prepare to pound Israel with Scud sized missiles and larger. Not katyusha spitballs that barely punch a hole in the ground.

The neighbors know Irael's weaknesses. Also, after Israel looses Tel Aviv and perhaps two or three other major cities and is covered in large parts by nuclear fallout, the tables will begin to turn of Israel's military advantages.

I firmly suspect Israel is going to get nuked soon if they keep up their current war-machine momentum. Syria allegedely has nukes and so does Iran. That's from some sources closest to the situation. I don't doubt that at all.

Any nuke that goes off in the M.E = end of world.