Egyptian returnee 'faces torture'

[The Linuxator]

link
So let me see if I got this right, we bring hime to guantanamo, we give him mo valid reason as why we threw three years of his life away, his reputation has been all smudged up, his dignity stepped on, add to that he was treated like an animal if not less. And now we are so concerend about if Egypt might torture him , I mean what can Egypt do that we didn't already do to him ?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
link
So let me see if I got this right, we bring hime to guantanamo, we give him mo valid reason as why we threw three years of his life away, his reputation has been all smudged up, his dignity stepped on, add to that he was treated like an animal if not less. And now we are so concerend about if Egypt might torture him , I mean what can Egypt do that we didn't already do to him ?

Oh, I'm sure there's quite a bit they can do to him. And I guarantee it'll be a bit more damaging than "stepping on his dignity" and "smudging his reputation."

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
link
So let me see if I got this right, we bring hime to guantanamo, we give him mo valid reason as why we threw three years of his life away, his reputation has been all smudged up, his dignity stepped on, add to that he was treated like an animal if not less. And now we are so concerend about if Egypt might torture him , I mean what can Egypt do that we didn't already do to him ?

Oh, I'm sure there's quite a bit they can do to him. And I guarantee it'll be a bit more damaging than "stepping on his dignity" and "smudging his reputation."

Care to expand on that thought ?

 

[dahunan]

Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
link
So let me see if I got this right, we bring hime to guantanamo, we give him mo valid reason as why we threw three years of his life away, his reputation has been all smudged up, his dignity stepped on, add to that he was treated like an animal if not less. And now we are so concerend about if Egypt might torture him , I mean what can Egypt do that we didn't already do to him ?

Oh, I'm sure there's quite a bit they can do to him. And I guarantee it'll be a bit more damaging than "stepping on his dignity" and "smudging his reputation."

Care to expand on that thought ?

How so? Your post seem to indicate that we've done the worst imaginable to this man, so whatever Egypt could possible do would pale in comparison, so we should just ship him there ASAP. I was only indicating that, even though some wrong-doings may be going on in Gitmo, much greater acts of human rights abuse happen in countries like Egypt.

It certainly doesn't excuse us, but to assume Egypt could not do anything more harmful to a prisoner than we've already done is patently absurd.

 

[The Linuxator]

You guys missed my point, I am not saying Egypt is the center of the world's democracy they are ruled by a stupid dictator that is backed up by us.
Anyway Egypt is not the issue of my post , the issue is that after all the treatment ppl get in "Gitmo" and that was all good, and know they are afraid about him if he gets tortured, I am astounded by the logic of it. keep in my mind the BBC link says that after a background check it was proven that he had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda, so what doies he receive in return for the 3 years he lost sitting in a bird cage, and the suffering he had to go through + humiliation ?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

And we've used that as a threat for decades.

 

[bamacre]

After reading and hearing about what happened to Kutb and al-Zawahiri in Egypt, they probably could do worse things than what goes on in Guantanamo Bay. Kutb's torture ended with a heart attack after he was smothered in animal fat and locked in a small cell with a dog trained to attack humans. Kutb's torture in Egypt only made his grief with Egypt and western culture worse. And when he died, al-Zawahiri, took over Kutb's plans. I think a good question is, did these kinds of torture exist in Egypt before the US brought in it's wealth and influence?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Seems like a no-win situation.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
You guys missed my point, I am not saying Egypt is the center of the world's democracy they are ruled by a stupid dictator that is backed up by us.
Anyway Egypt is not the issue of my post , the issue is that after all the treatment ppl get in "Gitmo" and that was all good, and know they are afraid about him if he gets tortured, I am astounded by the logic of it. keep in my mind the BBC link says that after a background check it was proven that he had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda, so what doies he receive in return for the 3 years he lost sitting in a bird cage, and the suffering he had to go through + humiliation ?

If that was your "point," you did a poor job of expressing it in your first post, and didn't do a whole lot better in this one.

Are you asking why it seems that the group not wanting him to be returned to Egypt because of the possibility of torture didn't have such strong, protective feelings about his treatment and condition while in Gitmo?

If so, I assure you that the CCR (Center for Constitutional Rights) is very involved in the dealings of Guantanamo Bay.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Read what Omar said...

Do you see videos of Americans chopping off peoples heads with knives and machetes...

Outsourcing torture to certain middle eastern countries has been done for decades at least.

 

[Strk]

According to the Gonzales' memo, the US can use "force" as long as it does not lead to organ failure or that the intended use is not to permanently damage the individual, both mentally and physically. (ie: the person may be screwed up for life, but if that wasn't your purpose, it's ok)

Egypt, on the other hand, the sky's the limit.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
link
So let me see if I got this right, we bring hime to guantanamo, we give him mo valid reason as why we threw three years of his life away, his reputation has been all smudged up, his dignity stepped on, add to that he was treated like an animal if not less. And now we are so concerend about if Egypt might torture him , I mean what can Egypt do that we didn't already do to him ?

Oh, I'm sure there's quite a bit they can do to him. And I guarantee it'll be a bit more damaging than "stepping on his dignity" and "smudging his reputation."

you're prolly right. we didn't sever any body parts. (at least i hope we didn't)

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Read what Omar said...

Do you see videos of Americans chopping off peoples heads with knives and machetes...

Outsourcing torture to certain middle eastern countries has been done for decades at least.

Not really videos, but there are plenty of photos of our soldiers in Iraq doing dirty deeds. Like I said, hatred knows no bounds.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture does not compare to hanging someone by their ankles, pulling their finger nails out with pliers and hooking 5000 volts up to their testicles while they watch their family members be killed in front of them and then slowly burning them alive. If you are suggesting they are similar you have no concept of scale.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture does not compare to hanging someone by their ankles, pulling their finger nails out with pliers and hooking 5000 volts up to their testicles while they watch their family members be killed in front of them and then slowly burning them alive. If you are suggesting they are similar you have no concept of scale.

I can somewhat agree, but I also strongly believe your description of Gitmo as "Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture," is horribly minimal compared to what actually goes on there, even what is documented, not to mention what is not documented. Torture is torture, and there is a point in which the scale no longer exists.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture does not compare to hanging someone by their ankles, pulling their finger nails out with pliers and hooking 5000 volts up to their testicles while they watch their family members be killed in front of them and then slowly burning them alive. If you are suggesting they are similar you have no concept of scale.

I can somewhat agree, but I also strongly believe your description of Gitmo as "Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture," is horribly minimal compared to what actually goes on there, even what is documented, not to mention what is not documented. Torture is torture, and there is a point in which the scale no longer exists.

That is not a widespread problem, it is a rare thing. Torture in these muslim countries is widespread and even a slightest bit of crimes can put you in some real trouble.

The torture that may have happened in GITMO was not right, but there is no comparison.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture does not compare to hanging someone by their ankles, pulling their finger nails out with pliers and hooking 5000 volts up to their testicles while they watch their family members be killed in front of them and then slowly burning them alive. If you are suggesting they are similar you have no concept of scale.

I can somewhat agree, but I also strongly believe your description of Gitmo as "Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture," is horribly minimal compared to what actually goes on there, even what is documented, not to mention what is not documented. Torture is torture, and there is a point in which the scale no longer exists.

That is not a widespread problem, it is a rare thing. Torture in these muslim countries is widespread and even a slightest bit of crimes can put you in some real trouble.

The torture that may have happened in GITMO was not right, but there is no comparison.

You have something to back up that statement, or are you just making generalizations?

 

[arsbanned]

Oh come on, wise the hell up. Being subjected to severe beatings, electric shock, and mutilation, among other things- is far worse than what goes on at Gitmo. If you had to choose after experiencing both, you would most definitely choose Gitmo.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: dahunan
Certain Islamic countries torture the fvck out of their prisoners... and don't care about human rights...

As opposed to...? The US? Maybe only to a small degree. Maybe.

Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture does not compare to hanging someone by their ankles, pulling their finger nails out with pliers and hooking 5000 volts up to their testicles while they watch their family members be killed in front of them and then slowly burning them alive. If you are suggesting they are similar you have no concept of scale.

I can somewhat agree, but I also strongly believe your description of Gitmo as "Putting someone in a prison cell and pissing on a Koran, force feeding hunger strikers and subjecting people to unconfortable undamaging psycological torture," is horribly minimal compared to what actually goes on there, even what is documented, not to mention what is not documented. Torture is torture, and there is a point in which the scale no longer exists.

That is not a widespread problem, it is a rare thing. Torture in these muslim countries is widespread and even a slightest bit of crimes can put you in some real trouble.

The torture that may have happened in GITMO was not right, but there is no comparison.

You have something to back up that statement, or are you just making generalizations?

I think this has to be some kind of joke.

Ever heard of Saudi Arabia? Malaysia? Pakistan?

beatings? torture? execution? severe pain? ...

And I didn't even mention Iran yet.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Oh come on, wise the hell up. Being subjected to severe beatings, electric shock, and mutilation, among other things- is far worse than what goes on at Gitmo. If you had to choose after experiencing both, you would most definitely choose Gitmo.

Aye, we're the softer side of torture. And sadly, that's not really meant as a joke.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Oh come on, wise the hell up. Being subjected to severe beatings, electric shock, and mutilation, among other things- is far worse than what goes on at Gitmo. If you had to choose after experiencing both, you would most definitely choose Gitmo.

Aye, we're the softer side of torture. And sadly, that's not really meant as a joke.

So what happened in a small place is now true for all of America?

You're taking a small isolated event and making it seem like its a widespread problem. But you're not the first to do it.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Oh come on, wise the hell up. Being subjected to severe beatings, electric shock, and mutilation, among other things- is far worse than what goes on at Gitmo. If you had to choose after experiencing both, you would most definitely choose Gitmo.

Aye, we're the softer side of torture. And sadly, that's not really meant as a joke.

So what happened in a small place is now true for all of America?

You're taking a small isolated event and making it seem like its a widespread problem. But you're not the first to do it.

Let me guess, you're thinking about Abu Ghraib? Well, we're talking about Gitmo, where the abuses have yet to stop. And is that true for all of America? Yup, thanks to the work of Alberto Gonzales' aides, we have legals reasons why we can abuse people down there.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Oh come on, wise the hell up. Being subjected to severe beatings, electric shock, and mutilation, among other things- is far worse than what goes on at Gitmo. If you had to choose after experiencing both, you would most definitely choose Gitmo.

Aye, we're the softer side of torture. And sadly, that's not really meant as a joke.

So what happened in a small place is now true for all of America?

You're taking a small isolated event and making it seem like its a widespread problem. But you're not the first to do it.

Let me guess, you're thinking about Abu Ghraib? Well, we're talking about Gitmo, where the abuses have yet to stop. And is that true for all of America? Yup, thanks to the work of Alberto Gonzales' aides, we have legals reasons why we can abuse people down there.

Thanks for guessing what I was thinking. I was talking about GITMO and Abu Ghraib. They were small cases of rogue soldiers and higher ups. But I know you would like to make it appear that this sort of thing goes on throughout America.

And using Alberto Gonzales there is a cheap shot.