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Egypt end gas deal with Israel.

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EagleKeeper

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The gas deal something I learned from an Egyptian poster on this forum, as something in a long list of issues the Average Egyptian had with Mubarak.

So EK, you are welcome to explore the back post on P&N a little more than a year ago, as for me, I am not going to bother doing endless research to correct your many areas of factual ignorance.
I beg to differ LL

You have been continually shown to be factually ignorant and ideology accurate.

You made the statement; back it up.

There are very few threads on Egypt and Israel that I do not monitor over the past 7 years.

An issue that the average Egyptian may have an issue does not translate into the making of the Arab spring.

Everyone has issues with the government; those issues to not trigger a revolt.

If the below is what you are using as your crystal ball - I see nothing at all about it being a justification for the Arab Spring - other than in your own mind

So far most of the threads on Egyptian Revolution have concentrated on only Egypt. And as the largest Arab country in the mid-east, any changes in Egypt has to have a large impact on the larger mid-east.

But then again, much of the Egyptian revolt was first triggered in Tunisia. And now, in rapid order, it has resulted in today's resignation of Hosni Mubarak, a 30 year long standing military dictator who has too long looted the Egyptian people. A mouth ago, who would have ever thunk it, and now Hosni is history. Where the Egyptian revolution goes from here is speculation.

But as Bilbo Baggins in the Hobbit used to say, never leave live dragons out of your calculations. And while there have been a variety of threads on the Egyptian revolution regarding Egypt alone, there have, by in large, been no viable threads on its impact on the larger mid-east. And perhaps the Mid-east country most shaken is Israel itself.

And even if I consider the following link somewhat incorrect, its the best to be found on the NYT at this time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/world/middleeast/12israel.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast

And taking off my political combinatorial hat everyone everyone on P&N has a right to wear, and putting on the the hat of what is best for Egypt hat no non-Egyptian like me has a right to wear, I would like to speculate on what Egyptians need to say to the larger mid-east.

1. That Egypt has no interests in any military hostility toward any nation. And thus Egypt will maintain the peace treaty with Israel in place since 1979.

2. Egypt will not assimilate the Palestinian people, nor will it be a party to seeing any wholesale arming of Hamas or Fatah. Beyond that, Egypt will no longer be a party to enforcing any Israeli blockade in the embargo of Gaza economic goods imports or exports to the larger world. And rather than uni-laterally declaring that policy, Egypt will punt the question to the larger UN in terms of what Gaza imports Egypt should restrict. And allowing in international and Israeli inspectors to enforce the deal.

3. Egypt will continue to export natural gas to Israel on the same terms as before, and maintain its international responsibility on fair use of the Suez canal.

4. Beyond that, Egypt is only concerned about its own economic interests and its own internal political reforms.

Silly me, will it happen?
It's all logical, and I see no problem with it happening, except for the "natural gas to Israel on the same terms" clause. Selling natural gas at 1/7th of its price is just ridiculous, and goes against any sort of common sense, regardless of who it's going to. Egypt isn't Sweden, and it's no longer ruled by a multi-billionaire who couldn't care less how much money the country's losing...

....we'll see though.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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To EK,

Good find, and in some ignorance I did indeed post, "I would like to speculate on what Egyptians need to say to the larger mid-east."

But that was my own speculation that turned out to be partly wrong.

As I speculated the following,

"1. That Egypt has no interests in any military hostility toward any nation. And thus Egypt will maintain the peace treaty with Israel in place since 1979.

2. Egypt will not assimilate the Palestinian people, nor will it be a party to seeing any wholesale arming of Hamas or Fatah. Beyond that, Egypt will no longer be a party to enforcing any Israeli blockade in the embargo of Gaza economic goods imports or exports to the larger world. And rather than uni-laterally declaring that policy, Egypt will punt the question to the larger UN in terms of what Gaza imports Egypt should restrict. And allowing in international and Israeli inspectors to enforce the deal.

3. Egypt will continue to export natural gas to Israel on the same terms as before, and maintain its international responsibility on fair use of the Suez canal.

4. Beyond that, Egypt is only concerned about its own economic interests and its own internal political reforms."

Fairly accurate, if I do say so myself, 3 out of 4 points basically right. But at the time I posted that Egypt would retain its natural gas deal with Israel, I was unaware of the fact that Israel was getting the natural gas at well below market prices. Or I would have never speculated that Egypt would retain the gas deal that only begin in 2005.

And EK, I remember that thread well, because a poster from Egypt posted to the thread explained Israel was getting the gas at well below market prices. EK, if you want to to honest with this forum, why don't you post the comment from the guy from Egypt on the gas deal? If you found my quote you can find the Egyptian posters quote too.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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And EK, I remember that thread well, because a poster from Egypt posted to the thread explained Israel was getting the gas at well below market prices. EK, if you want to to honest with this forum, why don't you post the comment from the guy from Egypt on the gas deal? If you found my quote you can find the Egyptian posters quote too.
If you want to be honest with this forum and if it happened as you say then you should have no trouble backing up your bloviations.....

If I remember correctly the jury was still out as to if this person was truly egyptian..lol
 

EagleKeeper

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I do believe that I accurately quoted the person who quoted you.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I do believe that I accurately quoted the person who quoted you.
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No you did not EK, as he is the one who explained to me that Mubarak was selling Egyptian gas at below world market prices to Israel.

But then again EK, you seemingly believe a lot of bogus Israeli propaganda and look at the world through pro-Israeli biased eyes.

As for me, in the scope of this thread, as a US poster, I can't speak for the Egyptian people. But still, and beyond a doubt, Losing Mrbarak as an ally has really hurt Israel.

As for me, in the US as a US citizen, I can only hope that that the USA quits wasting so much money in US foreign aid to Israel. Maybe and point granted, EK, AIPAC interests are still winning on the USA, but will it always be true in even the near 2 year future?
 

Hayabusa Rider

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Jan 26, 2000
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No you did not EK, as he is the one who explained to me that Mubarak was selling Egyptian gas at below world market prices to Israel.

But then again EK, you seemingly believe a lot of bogus Israeli propaganda and look at the world through pro-Israeli biased eyes.

As for me, in the scope of this thread, as a US poster, I can't speak for the Egyptian people. But still, and beyond a doubt, Losing Mrbarak as an ally has really hurt Israel.

As for me, in the US as a US citizen, I can only hope that that the USA quits wasting so much money in US foreign aid to Israel. Maybe and point granted, EK, AIPAC interests are still winning on the USA, but will it always be true in even the near 2 year future?
The cheap gas was nice but Israel will have other suppliers. Won't be as cheap, but it will make Egypt irrelevant, which seems to be fine with both parties.
 

EagleKeeper

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No you did not EK, as he is the one who explained to me that Mubarak was selling Egyptian gas at below world market prices to Israel.

But then again EK, you seemingly believe a lot of bogus Israeli propaganda and look at the world through pro-Israeli biased eyes.

As for me, in the scope of this thread, as a US poster, I can't speak for the Egyptian people. But still, and beyond a doubt, Losing Mrbarak as an ally has really hurt Israel.

As for me, in the US as a US citizen, I can only hope that that the USA quits wasting so much money in US foreign aid to Israel. Maybe and point granted, EK, AIPAC interests are still winning on the USA, but will it always be true in even the near 2 year future?
There are two people from overseas that posted in that thread.

And The Green Bean is not from Egypt.

TareX is from Egypt and it was he that posted that the price of gas was below the market rate.

You have a link to the thread by clicking on the reference.
Quote the other poster that you are trying to give credit to.

I did your dirty work - showed you did not state such; quoted your words and yet you still try to deny.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,632
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I did your dirty work - showed you did not state such; quoted your words and yet you still try to deny.

Would you expect anything less from Lemon Law?
He holds other to standards that he doesn`t even hold himself.....
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Let me make another point EK, regardless of our Lemon law v EK disagreements, the future of Israel will in no way be driven by either you or me.

But were I a pro-israeli fan clubber, I would be far more alarmed by Israeli losing the support of Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey.

And the larger question, if the US blank check written to Israel finally starts to really hurt US foreign policy interests in the world, will US support to Israel finally start to wane and sharply reverse?

Or the even larger question, is the the policy of Netanyuhu the best way for Israel to build a future, or are many Israel's right in saying the Netanuhu strategy will doom the future of Israel.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Let me make another point EK, regardless of our Lemon law v EK disagreements, the future of Israel will in no way be driven by either you or me.

But were I a pro-israeli fan clubber, I would be far more alarmed by Israeli losing the support of Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey.

And the larger question, if the US blank check written to Israel finally starts to really hurt US foreign policy interests in the world, will US support to Israel finally start to wane and sharply reverse?

Or the even larger question, is the the policy of Netanyuhu the best way for Israel to build a future, or are many Israel's right in saying the Netanuhu strategy will doom the future of Israel.
The key that was bolded is IF.

there may not be another viable strategy for Israel at this point
 

bononos

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Aug 21, 2011
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-- and vice a verse.....
Non-sequitor?
You've given me no real reason why Israel should be on the wrong side of the what virtually every country in world save America thinks. Dershowitz also admits that the settlements are wrong.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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there may not be another viable strategy for Israel at this point
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EK, I think the latter statement is rather ludicrous.

But maybe you like what Pual Krugman of the NYT has to say better.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/paul-krugman-israeli-government-policies-are-a-form-of-national-suicide-1.426387
Israel has 3 options in terms of strategy.


  1. Confrontation - This only forces the issue down the road because Israel refuses (under external pressure) to clean out the hornets nests when stung
  2. Appeasement - This policy has been demonstrated in the past to only encourage the hornets to sting every time they desire.
  3. Do nothing - Spray the nest after each string, but do not disturb the nest. Demonstrate the stinging has a cost.


Netanyuhu policies are the third option.

Is there a fourth that is not some bastardization of 2 & 3?

You like to advocate for the second, which from the Israeli POV has failed.
 

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