[edit] Is Hercules 9800 NP really much more noisy then there 9600 Pro?!!

[Dance123]

Hi,

1/ I was wondering if the Radeon 9800 (non-pro) is better or worse then the 9600 PRO?! Is there a big difference?! Why?!

2/ Second, how does the 9800 compare to the 9800 Pro? What's the difference actually between those two?!

Thanks!

Mike.

 

[ethebubbeth]

1.) the radeon 9800 non pro is MUCH faster than the 9600 pro, because the 9600 has a crippled GPU due to the fact that it only has four pixel pipelines. the 9800 has a full 8.

2.) the only difference between the 9800 no pro and pro versions are clock speeds. the non pro is by default 325/290 while the pro is 380/340.


the 9800SE is crippled like the 9600 and only has 4 pipelines.... avoid it like the plague. it is just too expensive for what it offers. both the 9800 non pro and 9600 pro are great deals though

 

[Megatomic]

ethebubbeth is correct on all accounts. The 9600 Pro does have only 4 pipelines but it performs really well. I moved from a GF4 Ti 4400 @ 4600 and it was definitely an upgrade. For the price it's a wonderful card, many call it the best bang for the buck with the 9800NP right behind it.

 

[4x4expy]

The 9800np should not even be compared against the 9600p in this way. They have completely different GPU and arcitechture... It is not like the 9700/9500 family of cards that shared the same r300 GPU, with a change in clock speed and mem bandwidth. The new r350 GPU is ONLY in the 9800 cards. While the 9600p is a great budget card, by spending the extra cash on the 9800 you will be rewarded with better mileage out of your investment and it will return a descent price when you decide to sell it. I bet with all of the variations of the 9600 cards, in 2 years you won't get jack for a used one.

 

[DarkKnight]

1) A 9800 non pro is much faster than a 9600 pro, but the new 9800SE is about the same speed. Be sure not to get that.

 

[Dance123]

Everybody seems to agree that the 9800 non-pro is MUCH faster then the 9600 Pro, so I was wondering if there are any game benchmarks to back that up with differences in fps. Anybody has any url's to such game benchmarks which compares those 2 cards directly (9800NP vs 9600 Pro) so I can see for myself. I am still wondering if I will see much difference in games like those from EASports which I don't think are the most demanding, unless somebody can tell me otherwise?!!

Thanks again!!

 

[GullyFoyle]

Link ripped from another thread: www.overclockers.co.nz

 

[Dance123]

Thanks for the link! Actually, it seems that the 9800SE doesn't score that bad, or am I missing something?

Am I correct that the biggest problem with something like a 9600Pro is the fact that if you turn on anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering, you get a serious drop in performance/frames per second, is that correct?!

I don't know if many of you play EASports games, but does it really make alot of difference in those games if you turn anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering on or off, as this seems to make a big performance difference with all cards

PS: if I can still find one, would it be a good idea to get the 9700 non-pro instead of the 9600 Pro or 9800 non-pro?!

 

[modedepe]

Pretty much all cards take a fairly large hit with aa or af on, some just take a larger hit. With a 9800 it's a much faster card than a 9600 pro, so even with aa/af enabled you still can get good frame rates. A 9700np would be fine if you can find one for about $200. It should be a good deal faster than a 9600 pro.

 

[Ramses]

My 9700Pro all in wonder kicks much butt, i've been very happy with it. I keep all the AA and all that in the drivers at max quality and play everything at 1024 by whatever with all quality settings at max, and still get great frame rate. Ut2K3 screams, everything else I've tried has run as well.

 

[Regs]

My 9800 sh*ts on a 9600 pro. Enough said.

 

[1ManArmY]

9800 NP best bang for the buck.

 

[Joker81]

Originally posted by: 4x4expy
The 9800np should not even be compared against the 9600p in this way. They have completely different GPU and arcitechture... It is not like the 9700/9500 family of cards that shared the same r300 GPU, with a change in clock speed and mem bandwidth. The new r350 GPU is ONLY in the 9800 cards. While the 9600p is a great budget card, by spending the extra cash on the 9800 you will be rewarded with better mileage out of your investment and it will return a descent price when you decide to sell it. I bet with all of the variations of the 9600 cards, in 2 years you won't get jack for a used one.

Actually the 9600 does have the same GPU. The 9600 is just crippled as said before. It also doesn't have hyperz III+ only the III, And it only has 2.0 of the pixel shader or something else I can't remember right now while the 9800 has 2.1 of it and III+.

 

[Dance123]

Originally posted by: modedepe
Pretty much all cards take a fairly large hit with aa or af on, some just take a larger hit. With a 9800 it's a much faster card than a 9600 pro, so even with aa/af enabled you still can get good frame rates. A 9700np would be fine if you can find one for about $200. It should be a good deal faster than a 9600 pro.

Are you sure the 9800 non-pro (325/290) is faster then the 9600 pro (400/300), since the clock speeds of the 9600 pro seem to be faster?! Doesn't that mean that when AA or AF are on, the 9800 pro will take a larger hit, despite the fact that he has more pipelines, and therefore the 9600pro would be better then?! Anybody can please explain this?! Thanks!!

 

[tenoc]

OK Dancer, pay attention. Everyone has told you the 9800 is a lot faster than the 9600 or 9600 Pro.

It is. Not only does it have 8 pipes vs. 4, the memory bus is twice as wide at 256 bit vs. 128 bit.

Clock speeds are lower, but the other two factors way out-weigh that.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Dance123

Originally posted by: modedepe
Pretty much all cards take a fairly large hit with aa or af on, some just take a larger hit. With a 9800 it's a much faster card than a 9600 pro, so even with aa/af enabled you still can get good frame rates. A 9700np would be fine if you can find one for about $200. It should be a good deal faster than a 9600 pro.

Are you sure the 9800 non-pro (325/290) is faster then the 9600 pro (400/300), since the clock speeds of the 9600 pro seem to be faster?! Doesn't that mean that when AA or AF are on, the 9800 pro will take a larger hit, despite the fact that he has more pipelines, and therefore the 9600pro would be better then?! Anybody can please explain this?! Thanks!!

8x1 * 325 MHz = 2600
4x1 * 400 MHz = 1600

256 bit bus * (290*2) MHz = 18560 MB/Sec bandwidth
128 bit bus * (300*2) MHz = 9600 MB/Sec bandwidth

Very simplified of course, but you get the point

 

[nRollo]

By far, clock speed.

 

[DRS]

Originally posted by: Joker81

Originally posted by: 4x4expy
The 9800np should not even be compared against the 9600p in this way. They have completely different GPU and arcitechture... It is not like the 9700/9500 family of cards that shared the same r300 GPU, with a change in clock speed and mem bandwidth. The new r350 GPU is ONLY in the 9800 cards. While the 9600p is a great budget card, by spending the extra cash on the 9800 you will be rewarded with better mileage out of your investment and it will return a descent price when you decide to sell it. I bet with all of the variations of the 9600 cards, in 2 years you won't get jack for a used one.

Actually the 9600 does have the same GPU. The 9600 is just crippled as said before. It also doesn't have hyperz III+ only the III, And it only has 2.0 of the pixel shader or something else I can't remember right now while the 9800 has 2.1 of it and III+.

I'm not really sure of this. The manufacturing processes are different for the 9600 & 9800. The 9600 uses a .13 micron die while the 9800 uses a .15 die. While you can get some great OC numbers from the .13 core the 9800 is still a faster card. Anyway, I don't think that it's the case the 9600 is crippled, they were just designed to have less features that the 9800 from the beginning.

 

[tallman45]

Originally posted by: DRS

Originally posted by: Joker81

Originally posted by: 4x4expy
The 9800np should not even be compared against the 9600p in this way. They have completely different GPU and arcitechture... It is not like the 9700/9500 family of cards that shared the same r300 GPU, with a change in clock speed and mem bandwidth. The new r350 GPU is ONLY in the 9800 cards. While the 9600p is a great budget card, by spending the extra cash on the 9800 you will be rewarded with better mileage out of your investment and it will return a descent price when you decide to sell it. I bet with all of the variations of the 9600 cards, in 2 years you won't get jack for a used one.

Actually the 9600 does have the same GPU. The 9600 is just crippled as said before. It also doesn't have hyperz III+ only the III, And it only has 2.0 of the pixel shader or something else I can't remember right now while the 9800 has 2.1 of it and III+.

I'm not really sure of this. The manufacturing processes are different for the 9600 & 9800. The 9600 uses a .13 micron die while the 9800 uses a .15 die. While you can get some great OC numbers from the .13 core the 9800 is still a faster card. Anyway, I don't think that it's the case the 9600 is crippled, they were just designed to have less features that the 9800 from the beginning.

Correct,

Both architectures are vastly different, the 9600 is not crippled it was designed as a lower performing card. The 9800 needs it?s own power source, as is evident by the power connector on the card. The 9600 has no such requirement.

The 9600 also generates substantially less heat than the 9800, and has a much quieter cooling system.

The 9800 np does perform far better than a 9600 Pro, BUT it also costs about 100% more. Next is that ATI has apparently stopped making 9800np?s and is now putting 9800se?s in it?s place. So IF you can find a 9800np and IF you feel that it is worth $150 more than a 9600Pro then go for it. Both support DX-9.

 

[DRS]

Thanks for the reply. Just a FYI for potential buyers, the lowest I have seen the ATI 9600 pro for is about $169 After rebate and the 9800np for $249 (these prices are brick and mortar prices from BB, YMMV). I've been looking for about 2-3 weeks now and these prices seem pretty consistent between the competitors.

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: Dance123

Originally posted by: modedepe
Pretty much all cards take a fairly large hit with aa or af on, some just take a larger hit. With a 9800 it's a much faster card than a 9600 pro, so even with aa/af enabled you still can get good frame rates. A 9700np would be fine if you can find one for about $200. It should be a good deal faster than a 9600 pro.

Are you sure the 9800 non-pro (325/290) is faster then the 9600 pro (400/300), since the clock speeds of the 9600 pro seem to be faster?! Doesn't that mean that when AA or AF are on, the 9800 pro will take a larger hit, despite the fact that he has more pipelines, and therefore the 9600pro would be better then?! Anybody can please explain this?! Thanks!!

no, the 9600 pro is not faster. The 9600 pro only has four pipelines which is much more important than the small difference in clock speed

 

[Dance123]

Next is that ATI has apparently stopped making 9800np?s and is now putting 9800se?s in it?s place. So IF you can find a 9800np and IF you feel that it is worth $150 more than a 9600Pro then go for it. Both support DX-9.

Is ATI stopping with making the 9800np's?! Where did you read that? I believe Hercules only does 9800 Pro and non-pro, I don't think they even do the SE version. Are you sure about this as these are all new cards I thought?!

 

[Dance123]

Originally posted by: tallman45
Both architectures are vastly different, the 9600 is not crippled it was designed as a lower performing card. The 9800 needs it?s own power source, as is evident by the power connector on the card. The 9600 has no such requirement.

The 9600 also generates substantially less heat than the 9800, and has a much quieter cooling system.

1/ What do you mean with that the 9800 need it's own power source? Don't both the 9800 and 9600 only use the PSU (with the 9800 probably requiring a bit more from it) or do you mean something else?

2/ Where did you read that the 9600 pro has a much quieter cooling system then the 9800 non-pro. Does anybody know if Hercules uses a different cooler for there 9800 non-pro vs 9600 Pro card? I thought they used the same cooler on those cards, perhaps only a different heatsink design?! Anybody knows this for the Hercules cards?! Apart from that, how noisy (db?) is the Hercules 9800 non-pro, as I want a silent card as I also make music on my PC so I hope the Hercules 9800 np isn't too noisy and how does it compare to the Hercules 9600 pro??!

Thanks very much for all good feedback!

Mike.

 

[GullyFoyle]

Originally posted by: Dance123

Originally posted by: tallman45
Both architectures are vastly different, the 9600 is not crippled it was designed as a lower performing card. The 9800 needs it?s own power source, as is evident by the power connector on the card. The 9600 has no such requirement.

The 9600 also generates substantially less heat than the 9800, and has a much quieter cooling system.

1/ What do you mean with that the 9800 need it's own power source? Don't both the 9800 and 9600 only use the PSU (with the 9800 probably requiring a bit more from it)?

2/ Where did you read that the 9600 pro has a much quieter cooling system then the 9800 non-pro. Does anybody know if Hercules uses a different cooler for there 9800 non-pro vs 9600 Pro card? I thought they used the same cooler on those cards, perhaps only a different heatsink design?! Anybody knows this for the Hercules cards?! Apart from that, how noisy (db?) is the Hercules 9800 non-pro, as I want a silent card as I also make music on my PC so I hope the Hercules 9800 np isn't too noisy and how does it compare to the Hercules 9600 pro??!

Thanks for the info!

Mike.

The 9800 GPU is made with a 0.15 micron process, the 9600 GPU is made with a newer 0.13 micron process.
The 9800 needs more power, and runs hotter.
The 9800 requires more power that the AGP port in many computers will supply, so it requires a power wire plugged into it directly from the power supply, just like a hard drive. The 9600 gets all the power it needs from the AGP port.

Taking all this into account, a 9800 has higher cooling requirements, and could be expected to have a noiser fan.

I don't have a 9600 Pro, but my Sapphire 9800np isn't all that loud, and certaily can't be heard over the CPU, case, and power supply fans.