ECS Motherboards bad? Recommendations for value gaming?

[IanWorthington]

Hi --

I'm very new to this and I've been reading everything I can find.

I need 11 computers (initially, with the plan to grow to about 30 over 6 months) to start an internet/gaming cafe and it looks like I can assemble myself a better syster than I can buy pre-built for the same money.

The systems are to be used for general business use, internet, and gaming -- not high-end gaming but after-school kids, etc.

I've read the recommendations and guides here, which (as of Aug 2001) suggested the ASUS A7S-VM motherboard for value soho, and the EPoX EP-8KHA for value gaming. However this seems to have been before the ECS K7S5A became available, which I notice is now the recommended board in the price guides.

As it seems to have a very similar spec to the EPoX board (DDR RAM), I thought this board would be be new choice for the "value gaming" systems I'm trying to build.

But some people are saying the ECS boards are crap and not to touch they with a bargepole!

As its not my plan to overclock 'em, or fiddle with them in any way, will they in fact be up to the job? They are $30 each cheaper than the EPoX boards. Really would appreciate any thoughts...

Also I'm planning to go with Duron 800MHz processors -- although they're only $10 cheaper each, that's significant over 30 systems. But is it really sufficient power? the game specs from www.gamespot.com suggest so...

And finally I'm also confused over video cards! The guides here were suggesting in July 2001 that the ATI Radeon 32MB DDR Radeon card was a good buy at $68, but the latest (November 2001) recommendation is the GeForce2 Ti200 at $172! I've found the Radeon DDR at compuvest for $59, but as they're not answering my email I'm hesitant about buying from them. What *is* a good card right now at a lower price than the Ti200?

Hope someone can help!

Thanks for listening...

Ian
...

 

[Thump553]

What you do really depends on a lot of things. Are you buying for now or six months for now (that is at least one generation, probably two, in computer parts). I strongly suggest you get a tech partner/employee/consultant right away in you business that is well versed-you are going to need repairs and replacements frequently no matter what equipment you buy.

I am not a tech person (except as a hobbyist) but am very familar with startup businesses. For your business to make it, you will need both a good tech person and a good businessperson/retailer.

That said, I've built three systems using the ECS board and all have run fine 24/7 (built in August & September). Others have nightmares with the ECS board, I never had any real problems. Just don't cheap out on either the power supplies or the memory-quality is important here.

My gaming system uses the Radeon 32MB DDR. This card is OK for now (excellent 2D graphics for your browsing, etc.) but it won't impress the hardware or hardcore gaming crowd. The Ti200 is probably the best buy for the buck now-in terms of performance and compatibility-but this could be totally different in two months.

About the Duron, what are you comparing it to? A Duron 800 would be considered bottom, or near bottom of the barrel as far as computing power goes now. It would have dificulty running the latest games.

Out of curiousity, are you in the US? I know in Europe and the East inernet cafes are common and popular, but I've never seen one here. i"m wondering if the demand is there in the US (outside of LAN party situations) as most people interested in the internet here already own a computer or have access to a public (school or library) one.

Good luck.

Edit: Don't fool yourself about not needing "high-end" gaming machines, if you want the gaming crowd (school kids or not, they are sophisticated) you will need high end machines. You will also need to upgrade them frequently to keep the customers coming back.

 

[IanWorthington]

Thump533 --

Thanks for your reply.

Yes you're right, we're not in the US, but in Europe -- Barcelona to be exact, where not everyone has PCs at home. In fact a lot of people don't even have phones at home. Given that, and that I can rent a large space for just over $500 per month, it makes the economics quite attractive.

We *are* looking to startup right now, January to be precise. Though I don't have much recent experience with PC systems, I've got about 15 years MVS system programming experience, a background in physics, and used to build (from individual components!) my own computers many years ago. So I don't find the technical side at all intimidating -- I just need to get up to speed on it.

My partner will handle the business/legal/FoH/sales stuff. For a start her Spanish is better than mine.

Video
====

Everything I read says no current games even begin to make use of the GeForce3's power as yet, so I'm reluctant to invest in those right now. The Radeon DDR and GeForce2 PRO were considered good enough in July, that's why I'm looking at those. Would something like a GeForce2 Mx200 be a better choice?

CPU
===

If I went for the 900 MHz instead (August's value gaming choice) for the first batch, would that be a better decision?



I understand we'll need to upgrade regulary. That's one of the reasons we're buying in three batches, 2 months apart. The older gaming machines will be "retired" to the business-only side, the more powerful machines going to the gamers. Maybe the later machines will be the Ti200s when there are games there for them.

I understand the most popular games at the competition are Age Of Empires, Diablo II, and Commando II, none of which seem to have particularly heavy hardware demands.

Thanks again!

Ian
...

 

[EglsFly]

Don't go with the MX 200, get a MX 400 for just a little more. Its faster and doesn't cost much more, about $10.

In regards to a good performing Value gaming card, I would choose either of the following:

GeForce2 MX 400 - $65
or
GeForce2 PRO - $99

Prices are from www.newegg.com

For the kind of games you mentioned, the MX video card will do just fine.
If you are going to get into First Person Shooters, get the PRO.

On the same web site, you could go from a 800MHz to a 950MHz for $3 dollars more.
That is definately worth it!

And I would agree with Thump533, go with a quality and powerfull (300W minimum) power supply.
This will allow the system to run without glitches and provide you the option to upgrade to faster, more power hungry, processors without having to upgrade the power supply.

 

[IanWorthington]

Thanks EglsFly, I'll look at those.

I've also seen the Visiontek GTS-V ($65) recommended as being better than any MX. Any idea if there's any truth in this?

Thanks again,

Ian
...

 

[IanWorthington]

Oh, and up until yesterday the 800 mHz Duron was only $34 -- *that* was the attraction of that. But you're right -- the price is now up to $43, making the 950MHz the right choice.

ian
...

 

[thraxes]

Board:
The ECS boards have most of the stuff you will need for an internet cafe PC on-board (LAN and Sound) and are reliable enough to be used widely by a major OEM retailer in Germany. Consider this aswell: In these forums you hear horror stories all the time about certain hardware, but remember, the more are sold the more duds are going to be out there. Although I am sure if we could have a percentage of faulty ECS vs running ECS it would be most favorable since there is a large user base. I have built 3 ECS systems and am running up to do my 5th and 6th in january and a few friends have those boards aswell, ALL have no problems. Id say that from a price point and considering that it is a major investment you are undertaking, the ECS is a good bet for a system board.

Grafx:
There will be gaming?? Get a GF2-GTS or Pro to be able to run all the games no prob. From a price/perfomance view these cards are currently very competitive

CPU:
AMD Duron is a good choice, the 950 will give you plenty of speed for almost everything that you will be doing.

Are you buying the parts locally in Barcelona??

Anyways, I wish you and your partner the best of luck with your business!!

 

[IanWorthington]

thraxes --

Thanks for your reply, and your wishes. Some parts (cases, keyboards, monitors, printers) will be sourced in Spain or the UK. All other components I'm hard-carrying back from the US on my next trip over in January due to the price differential -- Europe's about 30% more expensive.

Thanks for your comments, things are coming together now in my mind.

Sound
=====

I wasn't going to bother with the on-board sound 'cause I'd read it was a bit ropy, but I think you're implying it might be good enough for gaming. Is that right, or should I pick up a Soundblaster Live card? (On this subject I've only been able to find the 5.1 cards -- Any idea if they'll work OK with plain old stereo speakers?)


And thanks again.

Ian
...

 

[Flatline]

Live! cards would work fine with stereo speakers; for a cafe, though, the onboard sound is probably good enough. I've had a good experience with my ECS board (K7S5A), and I would say that it's the best bang for the buck board out there right now.
Other than that, I just want to give my agreement to the other fellows in this thread.

 

[IanWorthington]

That encouraging! That could save $50/system!

Thanks!

Ian
...

 

[HappyPuppy]

Don't bother buying sound cards. The environment of an internet cafe isn't condusive to thumping bass and screeching trebles blasting out at 250 watts. The onboard sound will give your customers all they need.

Kudos for researching this motherboard. I would sing its praises from the top of the nearest church steeple, but the local law enforcement agency would probably drag me away in a rubber suit.

 

[Agamar]

One thing on the software side you should consider...With all the differect users coming to use the system, you don't want to be fixing software every day..Install DeepFreeze and every time you reboot all settings will be returned to normal. I use it on 100 machines on our campus labs...Keeps me from cloning a lot.

 

[Ionizer86]

If you're thinking about MX/MX400, go GTS-V. I got mine for $62 and it works really well. It has 4.2gb of bandwidth vs MX/MX400's 2.7gb bandwidth. If you are hosting more advanced games, go GF2 Pro (6.4gb bandwidth). Best of luck with your new business!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

<< If you're thinking about MX/MX400, go GTS-V. I got mine for $62 and it works really well. It has 4.2gb of bandwidth vs MX/MX400's 2.7gb bandwidth. If you are hosting more advanced games, go GF2 Pro (6.4gb bandwidth). Best of luck with your new business! >>

I second that advice and sentiment Also, If you decide to use the 99$ Geforce Pros, you could recoup part of the money by using PC133 SDRAM instead of the DDR(since the K7S5A supports both) if you hadn't already decided on which type of memory to go with and still have excellent performance.

 

[o1die]

The ati radeon ve worked fine for me. About $60 us.