Economist: Do immigrants really hurt American worker wages?

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Very interesting article and aims for the heart of what people really care about in this whole illegal immigration debate. I find it quite amusing how right off the bat the Economist points out two silly arguments; both i have seen run rampant on P&N...so that gave me a little chuckle:laugh:. As for the article it represents both sides well and sticks to the facts, something which is nice in such a divisive debate. Take a look at the article and you might learn something.

Enjoy, Discuss.

Myths and migration
Apr 6th 2006
From The Economist print edition
Do immigrants really hurt American workers' wages?

EVERY now and again America, a nation largely made up of immigrants and their descendants, is gripped by a furious political row over whether and how it should stem the flood of people wanting to enter the country. It is in the midst of just such a quarrel now. Congress is contemplating the erection of a wall along stretches of the Mexican border and a crackdown on illegal workers, as well as softer policies such as a guest-worker programme for illegal immigrants. Some of the arguments are plain silly. Immigration's defenders claim that foreigners come to do jobs that Americans won't?as if cities with few immigrants had no gardeners. Its opponents say that immigrants steal American jobs?succumbing to the fallacy that there are only a fixed number of jobs to go around.

One common argument, though not silly, is often overstated: that immigration pushes down American workers' wages, especially among high-school dropouts. It isn't hard to see why this might be. Over the past 25 years American incomes have become less equally distributed, typical wages have grown surprisingly slowly for such a healthy economy and the real wages of the least skilled have actually fallen. It is plausible that immigration is at least partly to blame, especially because recent arrivals have disproportionately poor skills. In the 2000 census immigrants made up 13% of America's pool of workers, but 28% of those without a high-school education and over half of those with eight years' schooling or less.

In fact, the relationship between immigration and wages is not clear-cut, even in theory. That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.

However, even if wages do not change on average, immigration can still shift the relative pay of workers of different types. A large inflow of low-skilled people could push down the relative wages of low-skilled natives, assuming that they compete for the same jobs. On the other hand, if the immigrants had complementary skills, natives would be relatively better off. To gauge the full effect of immigration on wages, therefore, you need to know how quickly capital adjusts and how far the newcomers are substitutes for local workers.
City to city

Empirical evidence* is as inconclusive as the theory. One method is to compare wage trends in cities with lots of immigrants, such as Los Angeles, with those in places with only a few, such as Indianapolis. If immigration had a big effect on relative pay, you would expect this to be reflected in differences between cities' wage trends. David Card, of the University of California, Berkeley, is one of the leading advocates of this approach. His research suggests that although there are big differences between cities' proportions of immigrants, this has had no significant effect on unskilled workers' pay. Not everyone is convinced by Mr Card's technique. His critics argue that the geographical distribution of immigrants is not random. Perhaps low-skilled natives leave cities with lots of immigrants rather than compete with them for jobs, so that immigration indirectly pushes up the supply of low-skilled workers elsewhere (and pushes down their wages). Mr Card has tested the idea that immigration displaces low-skilled natives and found scant evidence that it does.

An alternative approach, pioneered by George Borjas, of Harvard University, is to tease out the effect of immigration from national wage statistics. Mr Borjas divides people into categories, according to their education and work experience. He assumes that workers of different types are not easily substitutable for each other, but that immigrants and natives within each category are. By comparing wage trends in categories with lots of immigrants against those in groups with only a few, he derives an estimate of immigration's effect. His headline conclusion is that, between 1980 and 2000, immigration caused average wages to be some 3% lower than they would otherwise have been. Wages for high-school drop-outs were dragged down by around 8%.

Immigration's critics therefore count Mr Borjas as an ally. But hold on. These figures take no account of the offsetting impact of extra investment. If the capital stock is assumed to adjust, Mr Borjas reports, overall wages are unaffected and the loss of wages for high-school drop-outs is cut to below 5%.

Gianmarco Ottaviano, of the University of Bologna, and Giovanni Peri, of the University of California, Davis, argue that Mr Borjas's findings should be adjusted further. They think that, even within the same skill category, immigrants and natives need not be perfect substitutes, pointing out that the two groups tend to end up in different jobs. Mexicans are found in gardening, housework and construction, while low-skilled natives dominate other occupations, such as logging. Taking this into account, the authors claim that between 1980 and 2000 immigration pushed down the wages of American high-school drop-outs by at most 0.4%.

None of these studies is decisive, but taken together they suggest that immigration, in the long run, has had only a small negative effect on the pay of America's least skilled and even that is arguable. If Congress wants to reduce wage inequality, building border walls is a bad way of going about it.
 

EatSpam

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May 1, 2005
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Consider the source: The Economist. In other words, rich people want to get richer, so they want to employ people for less money. But don't let the idiots in the middle class realize why their wages are dropping and assure them that if they just get one more degree, they'll be rich, too. :roll:

Cheaper labor results in new factories? That's good for a laugh. In the real world, not fancy fairy Economist land, cheaper labor equals bigger executive paychecks and layoffs of Americans.

And while its true, there isn't a fixed number of jobs, per se. Its just there aren't that many that will allow one to acheive a stable lifestyle.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: EatSpam
Consider the source: The Economist. In other words, rich people want to get richer, so they want to employ people for less money. But don't let the idiots in the middle class realize why their wages are dropping and assure them that if they just get one more degree, they'll be rich, too. :roll:

Cheaper labor results in new factories? That's good for a laugh. In the real world, not fancy fairy Economist land, cheaper labor equals bigger executive paychecks and layoffs of Americans.

And while its true, there isn't a fixed number of jobs, per se. Its just there aren't that many that will allow one to acheive a stable lifestyle.
Have you ever read the Economist?
The magazine is pragmatic, reasonable and well researched. You might also like to know the Economist endorsed Kerry in the last election cycle.

Your partisan closemindedness is trying to discredit an extremely reliable source for the sake of your unfounded opinions.
 

fitzov

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Jan 3, 2004
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That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.

"a wash" as he puts it, is the difference between advocating supply-side, or trickle-down, economics and its critics. If the final result is just a wash, why bother with giving the corporation an extra benefit (e.g. cheap labor, tax breaks)? The fact is that it is not a wash, and the trickling down is not as promised. It's a big lie.
 

imported_Tango

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Mar 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: EatSpam
Consider the source: The Economist. In other words, rich people want to get richer, so they want to employ people for less money. But don't let the idiots in the middle class realize why their wages are dropping and assure them that if they just get one more degree, they'll be rich, too. :roll:

Cheaper labor results in new factories? That's good for a laugh. In the real world, not fancy fairy Economist land, cheaper labor equals bigger executive paychecks and layoffs of Americans.

And while its true, there isn't a fixed number of jobs, per se. Its just there aren't that many that will allow one to acheive a stable lifestyle.


The Economist is actually a left wing magazine. It also is, in my opinion, the best economic magazine in the world, their editors are simply brillant.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: fitzov
That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.
"a wash" as he puts it, is the difference between advocating supply-side, or trickle-down, economics and its critics. If the final result is just a wash, why bother with giving the corporation an extra benefit (e.g. cheap labor, tax breaks)? The fact is that it is not a wash, and the trickling down is not as promised. It's a big lie.
How bout giving those less fortunate the opportunity to live and succeed in a 1st world country? It also goes to show how some are making this issue far larger than need be. At least it could show some evidence that building an extremely expensive wall will make far less economic sense than just letting illegals into the country.

food for thought.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: fitzov
That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.
"a wash" as he puts it, is the difference between advocating supply-side, or trickle-down, economics and its critics. If the final result is just a wash, why bother with giving the corporation an extra benefit (e.g. cheap labor, tax breaks)? The fact is that it is not a wash, and the trickling down is not as promised. It's a big lie.
How bout giving those less fortunate the opportunity to live and succeed in a 1st world country? It also goes to show how some are making this issue far larger than need be. At least it could show some evidence that building an extremely expensive wall will make far less economic sense than just letting illegals into the country.

food for thought.

You can't dump everyone from poor nations into rich ones without creating massive instability. Free trade can help, but it helps a lot less when you have free movement of capital, some free movement of goods, and extremely limited mobility of labour. An ideal system in terms of all nations improving standards of living, and none being hurt in the short run, would be to fully domesticate capital markets and cut off all immigration, but allow unfettered movement of goods. ('Ideal' in a textbook conomics sense in terms of everyone being strictly 'not worse off').

This of course would be a terrible idea, and will never happen. However, as long as capital is free to move around, we should be dropping barriers to labour 'chasing' that capital to high-wage regions, not making it harder.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: fitzov
That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.
"a wash" as he puts it, is the difference between advocating supply-side, or trickle-down, economics and its critics. If the final result is just a wash, why bother with giving the corporation an extra benefit (e.g. cheap labor, tax breaks)? The fact is that it is not a wash, and the trickling down is not as promised. It's a big lie.
How bout giving those less fortunate the opportunity to live and succeed in a 1st world country? It also goes to show how some are making this issue far larger than need be. At least it could show some evidence that building an extremely expensive wall will make far less economic sense than just letting illegals into the country.

food for thought.
You can't dump everyone from poor nations into rich ones without creating massive instability. Free trade can help, but it helps a lot less when you have free movement of capital, some free movement of goods, and extremely limited mobility of labour. An ideal system in terms of all nations improving standards of living, and none being hurt in the short run, would be to fully domesticate capital markets and cut off all immigration, but allow unfettered movement of goods. ('Ideal' in a textbook conomics sense in terms of everyone being strictly 'not worse off').

This of course would be a terrible idea, and will never happen. However, as long as capital is free to move around, we should be dropping barriers to labour 'chasing' that capital to high-wage regions, not making it harder.
Did i say everyone? Of course there will be massive instability with massive inflows of poorer people, but the amounts coming into the US are not having an impact on wages or jobs (according to the article). But it is however nice to see you advocating the dropping of labour barriers.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
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Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: fitzov
That is because wages depend on the supply of capital as well as labour. Alone, an influx of immigrants raises the supply of workers and hence reduces wages. But cheaper labour increases the potential return to employers of building new factories or opening new valet-parking companies. In so doing, they create extra demand for workers. Once capital has fully adjusted, the final impact on overall wages should be a wash, as long as the immigrants have not changed the productivity of the workforce as a whole.
"a wash" as he puts it, is the difference between advocating supply-side, or trickle-down, economics and its critics. If the final result is just a wash, why bother with giving the corporation an extra benefit (e.g. cheap labor, tax breaks)? The fact is that it is not a wash, and the trickling down is not as promised. It's a big lie.
How bout giving those less fortunate the opportunity to live and succeed in a 1st world country? It also goes to show how some are making this issue far larger than need be. At least it could show some evidence that building an extremely expensive wall will make far less economic sense than just letting illegals into the country.

food for thought.
You can't dump everyone from poor nations into rich ones without creating massive instability. Free trade can help, but it helps a lot less when you have free movement of capital, some free movement of goods, and extremely limited mobility of labour. An ideal system in terms of all nations improving standards of living, and none being hurt in the short run, would be to fully domesticate capital markets and cut off all immigration, but allow unfettered movement of goods. ('Ideal' in a textbook conomics sense in terms of everyone being strictly 'not worse off').

This of course would be a terrible idea, and will never happen. However, as long as capital is free to move around, we should be dropping barriers to labour 'chasing' that capital to high-wage regions, not making it harder.
Did i say everyone? Of course there will be massive instability with massive inflows of poorer people, but the amounts coming into the US are not having an impact on wages or jobs (according to the article). But it is however nice to see you advocating the dropping of labour barriers.

If you drop those barriers altogether, you will make first world nations 'worse off'. You'll also slow down coroporations ability to chase cheap labour though, which is something.

There's only one way to cure worldwide inequality without directly hurting anyone, and it's to close down labour AND capital movement. Since that's not such a good idea socially speaking, you need some sort of compromise so that all the power to manipulate markets doesn't rest with multinationals; softening immigration restrictions is one way to do that.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I don't know if they do or not, but wages for the last quarter were up 2.4% from a year ago levels. Far behind inflation, even further behind GDP and REALLLLLLLLLLYYYYY behind the 21% AVERAGE profit growth of corporations in the US in 2005.

Lots of factors keeping wages down while company incomes/profits soar. More like Mexico offshoring than immigrants, but that's just a hunch.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Originally posted by: Engineer
I don't know if they do or not, but wages for the last quarter were up 2.4% from a year ago levels. Far behind inflation, even further behind GDP and REALLLLLLLLLLYYYYY behind the 21% AVERAGE profit growth of corporations in the US in 2005.

Lots of factors keeping wages down while company incomes/profits soar. More like Mexico offshoring than immigrants, but that's just a hunch.
Wage increases tend to lag profits and growth as companies understand the market is cyclical and if they inflate wages too much they might not survive a potential reecession. That being said, wages are going up much faster than they have post bubble and I expect them to continue rising with the growing US economy. This can be seen with corporate dividends; they have been going up modestly with the large profits, don't jump all over it...these things take time.

The Economist has considered all these items you are bringing forward, and they still come out with a wash. I don't know how people are coming up with so many excusses on this issue.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Engineer
I don't know if they do or not, but wages for the last quarter were up 2.4% from a year ago levels. Far behind inflation, even further behind GDP and REALLLLLLLLLLYYYYY behind the 21% AVERAGE profit growth of corporations in the US in 2005.

Lots of factors keeping wages down while company incomes/profits soar. More like Mexico offshoring than immigrants, but that's just a hunch.
Wage increases tend to lag profits and growth as companies understand the market is cyclical and if they inflate wages too much they might not survive a potential reecession. That being said, wages are going up much faster than they have post bubble and I expect them to continue rising with the growing US economy. This can be seen with corporate dividends; they have been going up modestly with the large profits, don't jump all over it...these things take time.

The Economist has considered all these items you are bringing forward, and they still come out with a wash. I don't know how people are coming up with so many excusses on this issue.


Like I said, I don't know if they are or aren't. However, as for your profit vs wages, profits have been leading for at least 3 years now like gangbusters (over 13% per year over basis - does make nice P/E ratios though! :) ). As for wage pressures, inflation is already well ahead of this years wages and just a tad higher than the last two years wages combined. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation, but that's another thread. Are immigrants responsible? Maybe a little but I wouldn't think much.