Economic Growth Rate Downgraded to Anemic 1.6 Percent in Second Quarter

[nick1985]

"The barely-there number isn't enough keep pace with population growth, which needs about 3 percent annualized growth just to break even each year and prevent unemployment, currently 9.5 percent, from rising. "

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ate-downgraded-anemic-percent-second-quarter/

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/27/news/economy/gdp/index.htm?hpt=T2



Stimulus worked!

 

[PeshakJang]

 

[jman19]

Why don't people use image hosts that aren't blocked by most work places?

 

[SammyJr]

Just give it time. The Green Jobs bubble hasn't started yet.

 

[Phokus]

Stimulus worked!

Now there's an illogical statement. Without the stimulus, you'd probably have worse growth/worse job loss.

And Krugman predicted a long time ago that the stimulus needed to be much bigger than what was proposed (he was right).

 

[PeshakJang]

Why don't people use image hosts that aren't blocked by most work places?

Sorry, I just quick-searched for it and grabbed it from a blog site.

Just think "unabashed failure" and you'll get the gist of the photo.

 

[nick1985]

Now there's an illogical statement. Without the stimulus, you'd probably have worse growth/worse job loss.

And Krugman predicted a long time ago that the stimulus needed to be much bigger than what was proposed (he was right).

I like how you state your opinions as if they are fact.

 

[PeshakJang]

Now there's an illogical statement. Without the stimulus, you'd probably have worse growth/worse job loss.

And without the industrial revolution, we would have sunk into another mini-ice age.

Seriously... the "it would have been so much worse" argument isn't working anymore. Good luck campaigning on that.

 

[Phokus]

I like how you state your opinions as if they are fact.

It is a fact. The stimulus was a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the economic shortfall we were experiencing. It's better than nothing, but it wasn't going to turn the economy around. Krugman called it as soon as it was proposed and he was right, as usual.

 

[rudder]

Now there's an illogical statement. Without the stimulus, you'd probably have worse growth/worse job loss.

And Krugman predicted a long time ago that the stimulus needed to be much bigger than what was proposed (he was right).

This economic model has never worked. Not in the 1930's, 1960's, 1970's, not with the tax reabte stimulus in 2001... not now.

When the government spends borrowed money, it does nothing to facilitate job growth. Temporary blips maybe... but that is it. You spend more... you just end up with a bigger bill.

 

[Phokus]

This economic model has never worked. Not in the 1930's, 1960's, 1970's, not with the tax reabte stimulus in 2001... not now.

When the government spends borrowed money, it does nothing to facilitate job growth. Temporary blips maybe... but that is it. You spend more... you just end up with a bigger bill.

It amazes me how conservatives don't understand basic economics. Stimulus spending packages are the most effective way at turning the economy around because they have the largest multiplier effect. This is literally basic economics.

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small%20Business_7_24_08.pdf

Source: Moody's Economy.com

Tax Cuts
Nonrefundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.02
Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.26
Temporary Tax Cuts
Payroll Tax Holiday 1.29
Across the Board Tax Cut 1.03
Accelerated Depreciation 0.27

Permanent Tax Cuts
Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch 0.48
Make Bush Income Tax Cuts Permanent 0.29
Make Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts Permanent 0.37
Cut Corporate Tax Rate 0.30

Spending Increases
Extend Unemployment Insurance Benefits 1.64
Temporarily Increase Food Stamps 1.73
Issue General Aid to State Governments 1.36
Increase Infrastructure Spending 1.59

 

[EagleKeeper]

Government jobs were created and will expire because there is no real growth to support the extra costs.

Few private jobs were created; most were expenditures of work already planned and just pulled forward by a year within the budgets.

 

[EagleKeeper]

As others have calculated, the amount of wasted money to create a $50K job is roughly 4 to 1 based on the nmbers being touted vs what was approved for stimulus spending.

Why is there such a large overhead - what is actaully be created/where is it going to?

 

[nick1985]

It is a fact. The stimulus was a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the economic shortfall we were experiencing. It's better than nothing, but it wasn't going to turn the economy around. Krugman called it as soon as it was proposed and he was right, as usual.

Go back to the 3rd grade and learn the difference between opinion and fact. There is no debating with someone like you.

 

[Phokus]

Go back to the 3rd grade and learn the difference between opinion and fact. There is no debating with someone like you.

Here's your fact, kiss the rings:

It amazes me how conservatives don't understand basic economics. Stimulus spending packages are the most effective way at turning the economy around because they have the largest multiplier effect. This is literally basic economics.

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small Business_7_24_08.pdf

Source: Moody's Economy.com

Tax Cuts
Nonrefundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.02
Refundable Lump-Sum Tax Rebate 1.26
Temporary Tax Cuts
Payroll Tax Holiday 1.29
Across the Board Tax Cut 1.03
Accelerated Depreciation 0.27

Permanent Tax Cuts
Extend Alternative Minimum Tax Patch 0.48
Make Bush Income Tax Cuts Permanent 0.29
Make Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts Permanent 0.37
Cut Corporate Tax Rate 0.30

Spending Increases
Extend Unemployment Insurance Benefits 1.64
Temporarily Increase Food Stamps 1.73
Issue General Aid to State Governments 1.36
Increase Infrastructure Spending 1.59

 

[jman19]

What would GDP growth (a trend per quarter, I suppose) be if there was no stimulus?

 

[PeshakJang]

It amazes me how conservatives don't understand basic economics. Stimulus spending packages are the most effective way at turning the economy around because they have the largest multiplier effect. This is literally basic economics.

And it amazes me, as I've said several times in the other thread, that people like you think that all money spent on any cause, without regard for outside factors, is stimulus and will create jobs.

If you can only understand 1 single economic concept, please let it be this: Uncertainty of the future creates risk. Risk both increases costs to invest, and decreases willingness to invest. The political climate right now has created a business environment that is overflowing with uncertainty. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at somebody, if they are unsure of the future, they are less likely to put it to work. That is the problem we have now.

 

[nick1985]

Umm...the source for those numbers come from the author's own webpage. You really think those are unbiased?

And that entire article is that author's opinion. It is not fact like you want to believe it is.

 

[nick1985]

What would GDP growth (a trend per quarter, I suppose) be if there was no stimulus?

What would GDP growth have been if there was no war in Iraq?


The problem with the stimulus was it artificially, temporarily, inflated the economy. Now we are spiraling right back down to where we were before the stimulus. We are in the same place, now with a much larger national debt.

 

[Phokus]

Umm...the source for those numbers come from the author's own webpage. You really think those are unbiased?

And that entire article is that author's opinion. It is not fact like you want to believe it is.

So you're saying Moody's Chief economist made up those numbers? hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Slew Foot]

Now there's an illogical statement. Without the stimulus, you'd probably have worse growth/worse job loss.

And Krugman predicted a long time ago that the stimulus needed to be much bigger than what was proposed (he was right).

The war in Iraq should have been much larger. We should have nuked the entire middle east. If we only did that, we wouldnt be in this mess today.

 

[child of wonder]

So what the fuck do we do? More stimulus (aka more debt)? More tax cuts (aka more debt)?

We can try to encourage people to spend all day long but more people have learned they need to save more rather than spend. We can't always use the credit card to bail ourselves out as has been happening the last 10 years.

 

[spidey07]

So what the fuck do we do? More stimulus (aka more debt)? More tax cuts (aka more debt)?

We can try to encourage people to spend all day long but more people have learned they need to save more rather than spend. We can't always use the credit card to bail ourselves out as has been happening the last 10 years.

It would help tremendously if Obama and congress didn't constantly attack and hinder/harm business with their words and legislation. That is the main reason for the mess we're in.

 

[SammyJr]

It would help tremendously if Obama and congress didn't constantly attack and hinder/harm business with their words and legislation. That is the main reason for the mess we're in.

What hinderance? He hasn't proposed any tariffs on slave labor goods. He gave the health insurance industry billions. He expanded the War in Afghanistan. Iraq is keeping 50,000 troops. Life is awesome if you are wealthy and appropriately connected. Obama is a corporatist like all Presidents since St. Reagan.

The joblessness is by design and merely waiting for the next bubble to go into hiding for awhile.

 

[Phokus]

So what the fuck do we do? More stimulus (aka more debt)? More tax cuts (aka more debt)?

We can try to encourage people to spend all day long but more people have learned they need to save more rather than spend. We can't always use the credit card to bail ourselves out as has been happening the last 10 years.

Tax cuts are out of the question (unless your'e talking about tax cuts for the poor/middle class, who would most likely spend the extra tax savings and move that money into the economy)

The biggest GDP multiplier effect comes from spending increases. In fact, i would argue that you should raise taxes on the rich and increase spending if you're so afraid of the additional debt.

Spending Increases
Extend Unemployment Insurance Benefits 1.64
Temporarily Increase Food Stamps 1.73
Issue General Aid to State Governments 1.36
Increase Infrastructure Spending 1.59