EBay scam or not? (question)

[MichaelD]

Usually, if you have to ask, the answer is "Yes, it's a scam." But this looks different.

I have an item for sale on Ebay. Sale terms state "PayPal only." I get a message from a bidder asking if I'll take a Postal Money order. This bidder has had his account since 2005, has over 300 feedbacks with 100% positive. What do you think? The item will sell for under $50 if that matters. Of course, if I decide to accept it I'll only ship after the post office cashes the money order. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[kranky]

I'd accept a postal MO. You'll be able to cash it at a PO and get your money before you ship, so I don't see any problem.

 

[Leros]

Postal Money orders are pretty legit, in my opinion.

 

[MichaelD]

I was thinking the same thing, kranky and Leros. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Mike Gayner]

America needs a less primitive banking system that simply permits same-day money transfers from one bank account to another.

 

[alfa147x]

What was his reasoning? Tell for -$25 of the selling price not -$50

 

[alfa147x]

America needs a less primitive banking system that simply permits same-day money transfers from one bank account to another.

I agree. What does the rest of the world use?

 

[Mike Gayner]

I agree. What does the rest of the world use?

Here in NZ all the major banks have standardised account numbers with the format 12-1234-5678901-23. You can do a same day money transfer between any of the major banks in NZ (probably around 97-98% of people bank with one of the five or six major banks).

All someone needs to send you money is your bank account number. The account number on its own doesn't give anyone any type of access, only the ability to deposit/transfer cash. These transfers usually attract no fees at all for either party

Because we have this great system, we have absolutely no use for something like Paypal, which most NZ'ers have never ever used. When online auctions were becoming popular here some companies tried to start this service, but it never took off because it doesn't offer anything, except an escrow service which inevitably favours the purchaser.

Online shopping and auctions are extremely popular here, and the vast majority of transactions are settled by bank transfer. Also, invoices almost always include a bank account number for payment - e.g. your lawnmower guy's invoice, an invoice for the guy who fixed your garage door etc. This combined with our fee-free electronic card payments (like a debit card) means that most NZ'ers carry little or no cash.

 

[MichaelD]

In the USA, somehow, someone would figure out a scam to rip people off if they had your bank account number. I'd feel VERY nervous giving someone my bank account number.

 

[grohl]

Some people do the cash only thing - MO is the way to go for them. I say go for it.

 

[Mike Gayner]

In the USA, somehow, someone would figure out a scam to rip people off if they had your bank account number. I'd feel VERY nervous giving someone my bank account number.

A bank account number here holds no power at all. If someone were able to scam you with it, it would have happened by now on a huge scale.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

I'd feel VERY nervous giving someone my bank account number.

What do you think they'll do with it?

 

[Leros]

What do you think they'll do with it?

I can walk into a bank and withdraw money from my account. The only information I need is the account number. They probably should ask for my ID, but they never do.

 

[goog40]

Here in NZ all the major banks have standardised account numbers with the format 12-1234-5678901-23. You can do a same day money transfer between any of the major banks in NZ (probably around 97-98% of people bank with one of the five or six major banks).

All someone needs to send you money is your bank account number. The account number on its own doesn't give anyone any type of access, only the ability to deposit/transfer cash. These transfers usually attract no fees at all for either party

Because we have this great system, we have absolutely no use for something like Paypal, which most NZ'ers have never ever used. When online auctions were becoming popular here some companies tried to start this service, but it never took off because it doesn't offer anything, except an escrow service which inevitably favours the purchaser.

Online shopping and auctions are extremely popular here, and the vast majority of transactions are settled by bank transfer. Also, invoices almost always include a bank account number for payment - e.g. your lawnmower guy's invoice, an invoice for the guy who fixed your garage door etc. This combined with our fee-free electronic card payments (like a debit card) means that most NZ'ers carry little or no cash.

What happens if you pay and the seller doesn't send the item? If you can't reverse it, I wouldn't want to use that as a buyer. If you can reverse it, I wouldn't want to use it as a seller.

 

[Mike Gayner]

What happens if you pay and the seller doesn't send the item? If you can't reverse it, I wouldn't want to use that as a buyer. If you can reverse it, I wouldn't want to use it as a seller.

That obviously happens occasionally and that's why we have police. I've never ever been scammed on an online auction. Just trade with people who have good feedback.

Personally I wouldn't trade with a buy who insisted on Paypal because hey can easily reverse their payment and screw the seller.

 

[goog40]

That obviously happens occasionally and that's why we have police. I've never ever been scammed on an online auction. Just trade with people who have good feedback.

That's the problem with direct transfers, you have no recourse. Imagine a scenario where the scammer convinces one person to send money to the account of another innocent person, who then sends a product to the scammer. Good luck getting to the bottom of that. With Paypal, the money is guaranteed for the seller as long as they meet the requirements. As a buyer you have two levels of recourse. First through a Paypal dispute, and if that fails, you can dispute it with your credit card company.

 

[Mike Gayner]

That's the problem with direct transfers, you have no recourse. Imagine a scenario where the scammer convinces one person to send money to the account of another innocent person, who then sends a product to the scammer. Good luck getting to the bottom of that. With Paypal, the money is guaranteed for the seller as long as they meet the requirements. As a buyer you have two levels of recourse. First through a Paypal dispute, and if that fails, you can dispute it with your credit card company.

How the hell could that happen through an online auction site? I've dome literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of money transfers and have never encountered any sort of issue like this.

It doesn't matter what method of exchanging money is used there's always some risk. The convenience trumps this risk in most circumstances, and it beats pissing about with faux bank services like Paypal.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Imagine a scenario where the scammer convinces one person to send money to the account of another innocent person, who then sends a product to the scammer

wat

 

[nsafreak]

I'd go with the Postal MO as has been stated that you can cash it before shipping the item. They're not easy to fake either as the postal inspection service comes down like a ton of bricks on folks that they catch trying to defraud them.

 

[Ms. DICKINSON]

I'd prefer Money Gram. I also do personal checks and only ship out 7 days after it's been cleared.

 

[MtnMan]

I will NOT USE PAYPAL ever, at all, and I have contacted sellers directly and we have agreed to alternate payment methods. If they don't want to deal, then no deal, most do.

The reason I will NOT USE PAYPAL ever is my personal security, and paypals requirement to access my checking when I always pay with checking. pp can take a effing hike to the beach, then pound sand up their bung hole.

 

[goog40]

How the hell could that happen through an online auction site? I've dome literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of money transfers and have never encountered any sort of issue like this.

It doesn't matter what method of exchanging money is used there's always some risk. The convenience trumps this risk in most circumstances, and it beats pissing about with faux bank services like Paypal.

Scammer wins auction from Person A. Scammer lists an auction and Person B wins. Scammer tells person B to send the money to Person A's account. Person A receives the money and sends product to scammer.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Scammer wins auction from Person A. Scammer lists an auction and Person B wins. Scammer tells person B to send the money to Person A's account. Person A receives the money and sends product to scammer.

Person B never receives goods, calls police and has scammer arrested.

And in other news, there will always be people trying to scam you out of your money. Every transaction is going to be a balance between convenience and safety. I would imagine that if you asked a group of NZ auction users whether they prefer our ultra-simple, fee free approach, or whether they would rather be bound to using bullshit fee-grabbing nonsense like Paypal and long clearance times, you would get a fairly obvious answer.

The big difference here between NZ and the US is that we have an extremely simple bank transfer method available that almost everyone uses to pay bills, pay their rent, pay online auctions, pay back friends etc that has no fees attached. If someone wants to use Paypal or the NZ equivilent they're free to, but no one does because it's stupid.

In the US, you don't have this option because of your primitive banking system.

 

[MichaelD]

Well, I don't know if our banking system should be called "primitive"; it's not perfect but it's worked for me so far. I've never had a problem with PayPal. It really boils down to how you do business (are you a straight shooter or do you screw around?) and WHO you do business with.

I have done quite a bit of buying and selling of $200-$800-ish items via the classifieds on another forum (not computer-related). It's common there to send the money PayPal via the "gift" option. That leaves zero recourse for the sender should he get burned, but I've never been burned there. Those folks do a lot of business themselves on that forum (everyone checks everyone's feedback) and don't want to risk being banned for a few bucks.

I have filed a PayPal dispute before against sellers who sell me an item that's either defective or not as described. Twice, exactly, I've done that in...8 years or so. One time the seller immediate refunded my money and told me to keep the broken item (go figure). The other time the seller hid from PayPal. Only when they threatened litigation did he recant and refund my money after receiving his POS item back.

When dealing with your average e-transaction/sale, I'd rather pay a small fee to PayPal for the assurance/recourse they provide.

 

[l0cke]

Money orders are really cool, I almost stopped using Ebay after they went to Paypal only. Seriously, fuck Paypal.

And NZ's banking system is pretty cool, but I wouldn't move there for just the banking system.